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S&D Railway Trust

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Andy Norman, Feb 24, 2020.

  1. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Are these in the public domain yet, or have you just had "early sighting" of them by virtue of being a member/shareholder/etc.?
     
  2. GWCBC78

    GWCBC78 New Member

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    Not a great photo but is this not the signal box in question?
     

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  3. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Essentially the latter. Don't know about the former...
     
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  4. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    That box is there, but it's not the one which controls the signalling display.
     
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks. Presumably it's a case of sitting tight then until us great unwashed can have a read - I assume they'll be available, or get leaked, at some point.
     
  6. David R

    David R Well-Known Member

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  7. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Looks like wiser counsels have finally prevailed at the Plc and the fire-fighting has started. Silk purses and sows' ears spring to mind. However, this announcement still shows a lamentable lack of knowledge of the economics of rent:

    "This rent is considerably below what the PLC feel is its value, and as a reference (1) the rent for Williton/Sherrings Yard is £17000 pa; (2) WSRA at Bishops Lydeard (BL) pay a rent of £4,500.00 pa for their office space; (3) the WSSRT pay a rent for the BL Museum of £100.00 pa paid in 4 instalments and (4) for the Blue Anchor Museum it is £741.60 pa paid in 4 instalments, however this has been waived until Oct 21 to assist the refurbishment. (5) Quantock House at BL was set at £22,000 pa, but then withdrawn by the landlord. (6) 5542Ltd pay £10 per foot of siding space pa."

    What sets the rentable value of land is two things. By far the greater one is location. The other is what stands on the land. So to compare the rentable value of a site in a small village with access only over a working railway off a tight bend in a major road with the rentable value of a yard in an industrial estate (1) in a large village/small town with good level access is not a valid comparison. Nor is it to compare the rentable value of an empty site with that of a building, (items 2-5). Even in example (6), 5542 didn't install the rails themselves. Moreover, what the Plc feel is the value of the rent is neither here nor there, the value of the rent is what someone else would be prepared to pay for it. I rent out a flat. I may feel that it is worth £2,000 a month, but since no potential tenant is prepared to pay more than £600 a month, that is what I let it for.

    Also, the needs of the landlord have absolutely no bearing on the rentable value. A large part of the statement from the Plc is along the lines of "the Plc needs money, therefore the rent must go up"

    "The PLC met the Trust and made clear it needed to increase its income wherever possible. It was suggested that the Trust should review its finances, that a rent increase was needed and that as this would take some time to manage, the PLC would accept a staged increase over time, but that an increase was needed."

    There is the suggestion that the rent was originally set at below market levels out of benevolence, in which case an increase would be possible, however there is no attempt at justifying this statement apart from the slightly ludicrous :

    "At that time the PLC agreed the original lease it was trading profitably and could afford to be more generous than now; the level set is also an indication of the historic weak financial management which has been part the PLC’s current financial situation."

    Just because it could, doesn't mean that it did and just because the Plc is in financial trouble now because of "weak financial management" (even if that really is the cause) doesn't mean that was the case back in 1991.
     
  8. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Initial reaction, I suspect the comprehensive statement has come about after discussions/pressure/comment from WSRA and WSST to make the case for action, trading off an apology of sorts for the cuckoo comment and confirmation that the WSRA and WSST supported the action from day one.

    nevertheless it is welcome to see the detail and does present a better “case” for the eviction.

    Ultimately though it’s a question of fundamentals, you either agree with the principle of SDRT being evicted or you don’t, (no halfway house here) and I am sure this statement will be debated on here well into the next few days....

    regards

    Matt
     
  9. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    Why? Do folk have nothing better to do?
     
  10. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    well we are all in lockdown, I guess we will have to wait and see....
     
  11. echap

    echap New Member

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    My initial reaction to reading all that statement and justifying stuff is to note that at the end, the real message shines through. Unless you pay us more, we will not repair 88 when its time for an overhaul.
     
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  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not in the current situation no!!! Anyway, this is very much a part of what this forum is for - if you think discussing this sort of thing is a waste of time, I'm struggling to work out why you're a member.
     
  13. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Quite. A very foolish move to effectively put that out in the open. Still we can also see to which mast the support organisations have attached their flags to, in Case anyone v was still in doubt as to where their hard earned cash should flow.
     
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  14. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    The appeal, according to the web site has reached 73,000+; the target of £500,000 is a very long way off. Noting the hostility, here anyway, about the eviction and how it has been portrayed, is maybe what has caused a kid of rethink, even if grudgingly.
    Many of those who justify the PLC's actions seem to assume that only those who actually make posts here are not a relevant factor for the appeal. I believe for every poster here there are a least five - maybe more - that read the thread.
     
  15. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    "...the WSRA and the WSRST expressed their support for the PLC, while regretting the concern caused to the members of the S & D Trust, which seemed to be partly as a result of the S & D Trust’s unwillingness to engage in discussions....

    Which IMHO is completely at odds with the view put out by the Trust, namely that the Plc has been failing to respond to their communications, and that notification of an eviction "came out of the blue". It will be interesting therefore to see what statement the Trust issues in response to this latest information.

    "...The PLC briefed the Chairs of the WSRA and Steam Trust on the direction we were taking before the legal statutory notice was served. They were both aligned at the time with the PLC action..."

    So, they knew all along what was coming, and yet over two months later have still not given any formal explanation to their members. Frankly, it beggars belief.....
     
  16. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    So the WRSA and the WSSRT are happy to sell out the S&DRT. I guess there must be a fair few people angling for those seats on the board. So much for the railway family.

    All those crocodile tears by the trustees and their cronies last week.

    Also, I fail to see how the HRA can be a neutral actor in this process considering that Mark Smith sits on the board of directors.
     
  17. Piggy

    Piggy Member

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    It smells like a stitch-up ...... it looks like a stitch-up ...... ergo ?
     
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  18. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I cant imagine that sort of situation hasnt happened in the past.

    Having read the HRA adjudication over the expulsion of @Robin Moira White et al from the WSRA, I look forward to their judgement in this matter with interest.

    I understand however that the S&DRT are contributing towards a replacement tender tank top for 88.

    It will be interesting to see the evidence about some of the alleged safety lapses. However would these justify terminating the lease?

    I appreciate the PLC might like to see more passengers using Washford but there must be a question about how realistic this is. Similarly even 'Pre Coronavirus' how financially realistic are the plans to redevelop Washford & Dunster - where exactly is the money to come from?
     
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  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Well something concrete at least to pick over. I went back to the S&D Trust's last statement from the 20th March as I thought there seemed to be some inconsistencies in what the two sides are saying. I just thought I'd set them out:

    WSR: "The trust were again asked if they could consider making an appeal to purchase some identifiable part of 88 at overhaul time. It was suggested that the cost of the replacement tender tank would be a good project. Again there was no response."

    S&D: "It has been said that we refused to assist with fund-raising for a new tender top for our S&D 7F No. 53808 which has been hired to the WSR since 1987. This is not so. Although, under the agreement, this is the responsibility of the WSR plc we had indicated that we were prepared to help with this by fundraising."

    WSR: "It is open on most days for at least part of the day, the company is running a train service."

    S&D: "Also, during the last season, our shop and museum were open on all days that the WSR was running. It is not true that we had to be asked to open more frequently"

    WSR: "Non-compliant moves, movement of a carriage by hand, drivers driving without exams, Kilmersdon lit up with a gas heater. There has not been a positive response to this. The PLC has asked to conduct a safety audit on the facility as part of its own SMS compliance, but the Trust have not yet facilitated this."

    S&D: "There are apparently concerns over safety on site, but we comply with the WSR’s requirements as laid down in their SMS for Washford."

    There also appear to be some apparent inconsistencies within the WSR's own statement:

    "The PLC felt that Washford ought to be an important destination for WSR passengers, but it consistently records very low numbers, even though it is open on most days for at least part of the day, the company is running a train service. It was suggested that the company would make more of Washford in its timetable brochure and other marketing activity"

    and

    "This will displace the present PW depot, and after consideration the PLC concluded that the PW group would be much better housed at WD"
    Added to the fact that the WSR is intending to return Washford to a brownfeld site by virtue of evicting the S&D, it's hard to make this add up.

    There's lots more to pick over! Maybe later...
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020

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