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Royalty and Empire Exhibition Coaches- Where did they go?

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by robgolding96, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. robgolding96

    robgolding96 New Member

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    Dear All,

    I am hoping to find out what happened to the coach bodies that formed part of the Royalty and Empire (also known as Royalty and Railways) replica train located at Windsor and Eton Central station.

    Madame Tussauds opened the exhibition in 1983, and built a replica Dean 4-2-2 loco, with an ex-SECR tender, and two GWR railway coaches numbered 229, and 233.
    (just for interest the loco is still there at the station as it was too expensive to move. Its in good nick with a bit of rust and could do with a polish. The tender was cut up, but the wheels saved for the Bluebells Atlantic project.)

    229 was a replica coach, and was directly behind the loco and contained some wax figures.

    233 was a genuine former royal train vehicle rescued from a cliff top in Wales.

    Does anyone know what became of these coaches if they were saved for preservation after the exhibition closed in 1991? And does anyone have any memories of this wonderful exhibition?

    Many thanks as always,

    Rob
     
  2. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    <http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=53>

    233 as listed above is at Steam in Swindon. The vintage carriage trust register is very good for this sort of enquiry.

    Incidentally sister carriage 234 is going to St Germans as in effect a camping coach, although judging by railholidays other conversions it will be rather better appointed than the typical camping coach!
     
  3. markb846

    markb846 New Member

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    I thought it opened later than 1983. I remeber that GWS provided 6998 Burton Agnes Hall, and former GWR Royal saloon 9004 went there for somereason, and the branch shuttle was provided by the chocolate, and cream 3 car 117 DMU. However I can not rember the date
     
  4. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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  5. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    I can confirm that 223 is at STEAM, having wandered through it about a month ago. Very shabby in parts, an interesting example of an unrestored carriage.

    Out of interest, and confident that the answer will be 'just about everything', what would need to be replaced on the replica Dean Single to turn it into a runner?
     
  6. robgolding96

    robgolding96 New Member

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    Thanks Guys for the replies!

    As far as i know, The Dean single was made 'from some original fittings'. Ive just ordered a copy of The Railway Magazine from 83 with some info in about it. Hopefully this will shed some light on what is original.
    A friend of mine told me that some parts might have come from an Austerity tank engine, prehaps some of the cab fittings?

    However the top half of the main driving wheels don't exist and i am sure the boiler is hollow, as seen in a picture i have from the R&E brochure showing the loco being made at Steamtown.
    Most of it was steel construction, i'm not sure how thick, so i am not sure it would have the strength in the frames to become a working loco.

    There is also this picture from wikipedia,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GWR_3031_Class_replica_3041.jpg

    If you look at the chassis, there isn't much there!

    For a hollow mock up she does/did look splendid. Apparently steam was ment to issue from the appropriate parts, so there must be smoke machines inside her, however i don't remember this when i visited all those years ago.

    If anyone has any further info then i would be very very interested. Anyone on here know the people who made her?

    Some info can also be found in 'Branch Lines to Henley, Windsor and Marlow' book from Middleton Press.

    Rob
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's almost right (re the tender) - in fact it was an LBSC tender from a C2X. When the attraction closed, the tender was cut up, but the wheels and axleboxes went to a scrapyard from where they were subsequently recovered for the Atlantic project. During the conversion to GWR form, the original LBSC axle box covers were ground down to remove the initials - one would have thought simply removing them and replacing with fake GW patter would have been easier, as well as saving a bit more of the original heritage. But I guess that wasn't a driver for the project.

    Tom
     
  8. GHWood

    GHWood Member

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    I seem to remember reading about the loco sometime ago. If I recall correctly, the driving wheels are only 'half wheels' and had some method of 'winding them up' so the loco could be moved on it's leading/ trailing wheels only.
     
  9. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I remember as a kid being on a SLOA tour arriving at Carnforth and they announced over the system that we should look out on the left as we arrived as we would get a surprise!

    As we pulled in there was the Dean single wheeler parked in the yard, made my fathers day!
     
  10. robgolding96

    robgolding96 New Member

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    Lovely story GWR4707!

    Can you remember when that was?
     
  11. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Some more info/photos on Bluebell railway website here:
    http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/atlantic/background.html

    Richard
     
  12. robgolding96

    robgolding96 New Member

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    I managed to get hold of a copy of The Railway Magazine from March 1983, and it gave some more info on the train at Royalty and Empire that i thought i would share...

    Replica carriage No. 229 was built for the exhibition by Resco Railways Limited of Woolwich, and was mounted on former BR 'BG' Full Brake underframe. I still don't know what happened to this carriage when the exhibition closed the that site was turned into Ha! Ha! Bar.

    'The Queen' replica loco was constructed at Steamtown, the main frames, footplate, 'boiler', smokebox, cab and splashers by Babcock's of Tipton. As already mentioned, the tender is ex-SECR, however parts from a GWR tender, that came from the Dumbleton Hall Preservation Society, were used to provide the wheels for the front bogie and the real wheels. The driving wheels are only half, and were cast from 2 quarters, being bolted together to make a half. The driving wheels also don't sit on the rail, so the loco was wheeled into position on its front bogie and rear wheels.
    Some boiler fittings were obtained from the Great Western Society and sandblasted, and the dome and safety valve bonnet was made by Newcastle Metal Spinners. The replica loco was completed in Dec '82 and displayed outside Steamtown in January '83, before being transported by road to Windsor on 12th Jan '83, and arriving on the 14th. Two mobile cranes hoisted it onto the viaduct, the then it was rolled into position on temporary track.
    Madame Tussaud's fitted smoke and steam generators, so steam was omitted from the cab, whistles, safety valves and smoke from the chimney. A sound unit was also fitted.
    This interesting article was written by George Hinchcliffe, MD of Steamtown, and he states that 'the more work progressed the more real the loco became. It may have been my remarks that some nut case would want to restore it to working order in 1995, that did it. Apart from boiler, tubes, a firebox, cylinders and motion, the machine was almost a runner.'

    Unfortunately they don't mention how much the replica cost to make!

    Anyway, hope this was of interest!

    Rob
     
  13. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    January 1983, I would have been 7 when I saw her at steamtown... scary stuff
     

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