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Rolling stock, restoration and new build projects

Discussion in 'Heritage Rolling Stock' started by 240P15, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. 240P15

    240P15 Member

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    Since this forum has a great and comprehensive thread about new build steam locomotives, I thought it might be an idea to start another one for rolling stock:)

    There are plenty of beautifully restored carriages in the UK and many other under restoration. But does it excist some kind of new build projects (completely from scratch), like createing coaches that have been lost to preservation, create a "missing link" coach etc.

    The new build steam projects has a very great main website ,newbuild steam, were all projects are listed up, and it makes it easy to have a general view above the different projects. Does it excist any similar website for rolling stock?

    kind regards

    Knut:)
     
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  2. pmh_74

    pmh_74 Well-Known Member

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    Some of the Knotty Coach Trust's future projects are not far off new-builds (incorporating the odd original bit). www.knottycoachtrust.org.uk
    Same could be said of some of the L&B carriages. https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/trust/groups/east-group
    And of course the Pickering coaches on the W&LLR. (No info, but photo at the top of the page - www.wllr.org.uk)
    I daresay there are others. Although if you consider also the number of grounded bodies which have been and are being rewheeled on later underframes, there are rather a lot of those.
     
  3. 240P15

    240P15 Member

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    Thanks for your reply!:) Most interesting.
     
  4. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    I can't really see any justification for any 100% new build rolling stock, whilst there is still so much historically important stock at risk.

    Sawdust.
     
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  5. 240P15

    240P15 Member

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    The coaches from the knottycoachtrust are absolutely beautiful!

    What I also like is the fact that these projects are possible to support with online-donations.:)

    Knut
     
  6. toplight

    toplight Member

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    In my opinion New build coaches would only possible if you had full time staff to do the work and the money to pay for it, but like sawdust said, with so many existing 'projects' and coaches needing help, there isn't much reason to do so. You should check the coach database

    http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/search.asp

    and see how many 'preserved' coaches has already been scrapped. :( and how many still need people to restore them. It well worth looking through all the ones there are.

    This is the project I am working on myself, see pictures at the bottom for how it looked at the start.

    http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=235
     
    born in 1950, 2mm Andy and weltrol like this.
  7. 2392

    2392 Member

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    Whilst I echo Sawdust's remark, for the moment. And I'll respond by saying why not have a bit of dreaming as per the new build loco thread. Following the A1 trusts idea of a set of Mk 3 for their locos. I'd like to see a set of Streamliner carriages to go with the Observation carriage you have as your avatar Sawdust..... Though on a perhaps more serious theme, I'd love to see some more Clerestories especially from the East Coast Group. Be they E.C.J. stock like 189 or more general stock from the N.E.R., N.B.R., G.N.R. or any other of the L.N.E.R. Companies.
     
  8. 240P15

    240P15 Member

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    Yes it could absolutely be a bit of dreaming as you say. ;) I have changed the title of this thread. And anything else of restorationwork / projects around in the UK, it`s not so easy to know where you can find information about them in the "internet jungle".

    Knut
     
  9. toplight

    toplight Member

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    Is there any interesting restorations being done in Norway that you could put some pictures/links too ?
    My own railway has two Norwegian coaches in use as a cafe. See here. I believe there is a few more in Scotland too and there are two working Norwegian 2-6-0 locos too in other parts of Britain.

    http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3394

    http://www.cs.vintagecarriagestrust.org/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=3393
     
  10. 2392

    2392 Member

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    Forgot to say, that suggested Streamlined set would be perfect for the 3 U.K. based operable A4s. Granted two are in B.R. colours [Gresley & South Africa] and OK I know Gresley and Bittern [in L.N.E.R. colours] are currently in bits being overhauled with South Africa on the verge of permanent [for the time being] withdrawal......
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
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  11. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    There's clearly strength in this argument, but the directly analogous question has to be "why build new steam locos when there are so many kicking around unrestored?"

    There are significant gaps in the heritage rolling stock fleet and massive strides in C&W restoration notwithstanding, just as many design and construction skills to be (re)developed as for locos. Whilst spreading volunteer effort too thinly has to be of concern, as with locomotives, who's to say a newbuild carriage scheme can't be expected to attract new blood for whom an almost blank sheet is the challenge in itself?
     
  12. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    As Henry Crun of Goon Show fame would put it "They can't get the wood you know" I have heard suspicions that this might be getting to be the case.

    PH
     
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  13. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    .... except sycamore, which grow like weeds just about everywhere. Pity it's all but useless for most railway applications!

    There is a fair bit of native deciduous planting going on (to replace commercial evergreen monoculture) and as long as forestry is well managed, there's little reason to worry about native timber supplies. With the emphasis on oil palms rife in warmer climes, tropical hardwoods are another matter, unfortunately.
     
  14. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Ironically it was a sample of a native species I was told about.

    Paul H
     
  15. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    I think anything very long, or very wide, or very wide and deep is getting to be a problem for a lot of woods, particularly if you also want them free of heart defects.

    Sawdust.
     
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  16. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Which would that be? Elm is as rare as hen's teeth these days (although we still have many here in Brighton & Hove, due to a council who adopted a draconian but effective system to manage Dutch Elm Disease when it first hit the UK), but oak is steadily recovering after the decimation of woodland during WWI followed by decades of commercial softwood forestry. Ash, beech and plane aren't too scarce, although tbh, I'm uncertain whether these species are all that relevant to traditional carriage construction.

    Add to this that composites, both natural and synthetic, are increasingly used in the construction industry in lieu of MKI 'tree wood' and the picture doesn't look (quite) as bad.

    As regards tropical (and sub-tropical) hardwoods, curiosity led me to check availability a couple of months ago. This seems largely the preserve of the luxury boatbuilding industry these days, but it's clear that there are several species of teaks and mahogonies not on the endangered list (which was a pleasant surprise to me), though quite how well these stack up with traditionally used varieties I don't know. Not exactly cheap, but was it ever?

    Given we're hardly talking MC&W production numbers, if costings prove viable, the supply is out there, so shall thee and me sit back and await the first proposal for a rake of fin de siècle LNWR clerestories based on the MKI sleeper chassis? (From which you'd correctly guess my view is that the underframes and running gear would likely present the biggest headache).
     
  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Howard,

    Refer you to Sawdust's post No. 16 with particular reference, so I gather, to defects.

    Paul H
     
  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    From what I can gather, L.N.W.R. vehicles were not particularly special apart for the stuff for "The Corridor" and the American Boat Trains. These were splendid but heavy and tended to be twelve wheeled. So not ideal for tourist railway use. I would think Midland Railway prototypes would be better, without gas lighting of course.

    Paul H
     
  19. toplight

    toplight Member

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    I don't think getting wood for C and W is that difficult. I have been able to buy plenty for my own project no problem and we also have had wood donated. We have replaced with different woods if necessary. For example the wooden bottom side bases were oak, we have replaced with Iroko. Framework was Teak, we have used Sapele for replacement bits
    Mouldings were Brazilian Mahogany, we have used Utile instead and so on, so even if the original woods are in short supply there are similar alternatives.
    Sometimes if you want something like American Walnut for interiors, you can always stain another wood to look like Walnut etc if you wish, or get your wallet out for the real thing.

    Sometimes cheaper woods can be used if you want to reduce the cost a bit and then stained, painted or scumbled, particular on the interior.
    Luckily I have worked alongside an ex Swindon works man for a long time so have learnt why different woods were used for different purposes on the coach. For example the ventilators at the top of each door and guttering (cornice) were made from Cedar because it is nice and soft.

    As for building new stuff. Most people who want to work on coaches are presumably already doing so, so if you wanted to build new stuff you would either have to recruit a lot of new volunteers or get paid staff. If I could get a nice full time paid job doing it I would, but who is going to do the paying ?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2018
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  20. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    No articled aborculturalist (or chippie) me, but mutations aside trees are what they always were, so my guess would be that "back in the day" a timber too flawed to produce, say, a long stringer could readily be utilised elsewhere in the industry and a more suitable piece selected .... simples!

    With hardwoods less widely used than formerly, I'd suggest that flawed timber is bound to be more of an issue these days, moreso if we're talking about a very few newbuilds rather than the large batch construction of yesteryear. This is, presumably, one of those areas where there's no substitute for long generations of experience and expertise, largely atrophied since production of timber framed carriage bodies finally ceased in the earliest years of nationalisation.

    My earlier foray into this thread [post #11] mentioned the loss of accumulated skills. Perhaps initial selection of suitable lumber from woodland is one such skill which needs relearning after a 70 year hiatus*? Hopefully, we've a fellow member who could comment with rather more authority than I (!) on this aspect.

    *Given what's been achieved in terms of loco and C&W work since 1951, shall anyone confidently assert this is beyond our ever-resouceful heritage movement?
     
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