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Queen Mary now at risk

Discussion in 'Everything Else Heritage' started by Guest, Jul 31, 2011.

  1. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    As if the Shieldhall and Waverley situations are not parlous enough - now the original Queen Mary, which has lain in Tilbury for the last ten months is at risk.

    She is up for auction on the 24th August

    http://commercial.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=207881

    At least the others are owned by preservationists no matter what - the QM could be bought by razor blade makers - This must NOT be allowed to happen
     
  2. Tyne Turbine

    Tyne Turbine New Member

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    And its a project with a scale that might work, certainly more viable than Manxman or Dover, much as I like those two fine vessels.
     
  3. Richard66

    Richard66 New Member

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    I thought you meant the ex-Cunard Queen Mary (now at Long Beach) for a moment there!
    Hopefully this ship will find a new owner and not end up as scrap.
     
  4. channel

    channel Member

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    If those behind Manxman, Duke of Lancaster and Dover projects got behind the QM there is a chance she could survive . . .
     
  5. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    she does look a better candidate than any of the others as long as she hasnt deteriated too much but expecting everyone concerned to put all their attempts into this, i feel might be asking too much but im hoping that some sense might be shown she to me would be a better choice than Dover, at least she looks like a former railway boat but would those behind dover want to give up on their pet project even though im my eyes she is now probally beyond saving its this type of situation that i meant in a previous post, that it makes sence to concentrate on one boat than to go after 3 or 4 separate boats that are most probally past saving, look at it this way, take Ryde and Dover, both need very extensive , expensive work, and how much more could you do if all that work force and money could be put into one boat , i know that it would mean that the Dover and Ryde would be lost , but at least one other boat would be saved , rather than possibly loosing all 3 , assuming that who ever bids for Queen Mary has plans to restore her , or that a campain can be launched to buy her
     
  6. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Was this one of the eyesores moored a long the Thames for years ?

    I think I've actually been for a function on this ship and recall it was distinctly "overdue" some tlc and certainly not even British standard, let alone world standard for appearance.

    Agreed it's infinitely more salvageable, but I hope if it is, that it is salvaged by an organisation with sufficient funds (ie commercial operator with funds and viable business plan for it's operation afterwards), rather than a tin pot operation which will only vocalise a long painful death.

    I think it's a bit late for a restoration In time for the olympics, but would be extremely viable as a cocktail bar on the upper deck and decent restaurant inside if it was returned to a more suitable riverside location, such as by the London eye, greenwich or even In canary wharf or by mast house terrace piers.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    Anyone who calls the Queen Mary an eyesore never sailed on her - thank God I managed six seasons before her withdrawal in 1977. Her quality shines through the years of neglect like a beacon.

    I fully agree - any new owner needs to have a good business plan for her - but as her last but one owners were Bass Charrington Brewers I feel that ADB's comments are somewhat wide of the mark. Ships in the UK have, so far, not survived long in static roles and the general belief is that ships need to sail to earn their keep and upkeep.

    I have submitted a potential business plan combining coastal cruising a la Hurtigruten or Hebridean Princess model with conventional day excursions when either not in that trade or whilst multi day passengers areon shore excursions.

    Visualise her and the Jacobite working together in the West Highlands - that would be no "tin pot" operation
     
  8. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    I would be 2 in 1977.
    However re: wide of the Mark, it's previous location, hidden by the off ramp of the blackfriars bridge, in a spot where tourists, city workers didnt go, lack of advertising and almost no passing trade, didn't bode well for promotion.
    I have pictures of a tree growing from the side of it, it hadn't been painted in a while.
    As I mentioned I was on it for a customer meeting once (but I now think that was the Wellington, same situation).

    I think the previous owners gave up on it years ago.

    As a trendy bar in the right location, given it's history, I think it could be a winner, Docklands definitely springs to mind. But would the costs and the ROI on making it work again, in Scotland really be viable ? - I thoughtbthe Waverley was struggling and it tours the UK to make a living ?
     
  9. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    The auctioneers website here is showing that the Queen Mary has been sold. No further details are given.


    Keith
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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  11. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    My apologies - I simply followed the link from the apolloduck website to the auctioneers' website.


    Keith
     
  12. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    it would seem that she is structurly sound or was when last surveyed , which bodes well , but has no engines , how much of a problem would it be for any outfit that might wish to save her to sourse a set of steam turbines ,after all cosmetical work is probally easy enough but why go to that cost, if you cant get any suitable engines, did the manxman still have hers fitted when she was, or is in the process of being broken up? and who knows, could some of the manxman even be used to reserect the queen mary?
     
  13. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Info taken from this website states:

    "Turbines removed - two donated to the Science Museum, London and one retained on the vessel and originally displayed in the lower deck cocktail bar with a propellor directly attached.
    Note :
    One turbine remains with the Science Museum and his held at their large item storage facility at Wroughton, Wilts and can only be seen by appointment.
    One is now at the Scottish Maritime Museum, Irvine and has been stored outside but is due (in 2010) to be taken inside for restoration and display.
    The webmaster is unclear about the current location of the third turbine which had not been on display aboard for many years.
    The new owners have indicated to me that to their knowledge it is not aboard, although there are other indications it might remain concealed in a storage area."

    Hope this helps


    Keith
     
  14. Guest

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    If - and its a big ask - she was to be returned to service she wouldn't be steam that is for sure.

    Modern diesels are so quiet and vibration free that coupled to a set of turbo generators, the space vacated by former engine and boiler space would be considerable.

    Looking at the simple volume in the hull and superstructure, I am quite certain that say twenty five cabins plus spacious and comfortable enclosed seating and catering areas capable of accommodating say 50 luxury multi day cruise passengers, or 400 day cruisers, plus forty crew would be a very practical proposition.

    Now run a basic cash flow exercise and a potentially profitable business plan emerges - all that is needed is to then find someone in the cruise trade who undertands the appeal of a traditional outline - about 10 - 12 million, and away we go.

    Sounds immense - but in business terms - its not that big a deal!
     
  15. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    First flaw here, is as a diesel ship...
    Thing is as a paddle steamer, if it steams it has Market appeal.
    If it doesn't, why not buy a diesel "wannabe" paddle steamer.. There's plenty of Mississipi style ones going up the Thames every day..so no restoration cost, everyone still sees through it... Why would Queen Mary be any different ?..how much different would it be from any other highland ferry ?, at risk of prodding, it could always be painted LMS red as well ?

    Frank you of all people would go nuts if we restored 46235 with a diesel engine in it's firebox... How many people would want to ride behind it as such ?

    On the maths, 150 days of Jacobites x400 sellout passengers every day x£30 a pop (this is a higher rate for The Waverley, which is a real ship, not diesel) is £ 1.8mn, before operating costs, and staffing..
    40 staff at £5 per hour, for 40 hours a week for those 150 days is £1.2mn... And still there's fuel, berthing, maintenance...

    If you spent £4mn on restoration and a whopping £5000! monthly on berthing, and say 15 staff at £5ph your looking circa £90k per month in costs, set that against say a lowly 1000 people a day spending a lowly £20 a head = £700k a month as a bar/ restaurant in Canary Wharf.. Food, insurance and business rates are still not going to eat the difference.and the historical integrity of the ship is maintained...

    Just to find people for £5ph, now :), but even £10 ph the bar restaurant stands up better imho
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    Silly boy - cruise ships are (largely) staffed by Phillipinos -that drives a horse and coaches through your staffing overheads. There are also ways and means of avoiding UK overheads such as N.I.

    The Hebridean Princess - which is powered by two rattly old Crossleys - so she does not sail at night - charges an average £250 per day for her cruise passengers. Cruise passengers are not so interested in steam but on board comfort and facilities. Waverley is more popular than Balmoral - but we will still have 600 on board out of Whitehaven and Menai next weekend - makes railtouring look small beer when we are on song, believe me!


    On board credit accounts can easily add another £50 per day for overnighters or day sails an average £10 -£12

    Diesel is not such an issue when the hull and superstructure is the historic item and shape.

    Now run your cash flow!
     
  17. stan the man

    stan the man Member

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    I think Frank is spot on.

    As much as I would love to see QM back in steam it will never happen, the best we can hope for is for her to be fitted with diesels and get back into operation to pay her way. Im sure people would pay good money to go on this classic ship just as they would to ride on a diesel hauled VSOE.

    Lets hope she survives.

    Stan
     
  18. howard

    howard Member

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    Another plus for diesel power - certificated diesel engineers are two a penny, certificated steam turbine men are as rare as hen's teeth.
     
  19. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    There is that too it also, Would anyone really care if she was fitted with modern deisel engines, probally not, plus they would be more reliable and more cost effective , the average passenger wouldnt even notice that she was deisel powered and being a traditional shape boat i can think of several very sucessfull tours that she would be very at home on, and not just in scottish waters either , what about if it was given a pulman lounge and hired to VSOE for the Orient express and operated from Dover, or hopefully Folkestone for several months of the year as well as other possible link ups with the northern belle? i think that there would be a market that if she was saved and was capable of ocean transit once more between europe and england as well in home waters
     
  20. Tyne Turbine

    Tyne Turbine New Member

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    Remember she is only just over one thousand tons gross, the nearest she ever got to sea going was when she replaced the Duchesses on the occasional peak summer Saturday afternoon trips to Ailsa Craig. Even in wartime she remained on the Clyde. I do not think she ever held more than a Class III certificate. It is highly unlikely that a higher rated certificate would ever be granted.

    I am certainly in favour of her preservation and fresh thinking to secure her future just trying to temper this with a degree of reality as to what might not be possible in the interest of both the regulatory framwork and also passenger comfort.
     

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