Project for short heritage railway beside busway Dunstable

South Bedfordshire Railway Group

Project for a short heritage railway at Dunstable beside the Luton to Dunstable bus way

The site aims to promote and help to start the scheme for short length of heritage railway along part of the old Dunstable to Luton railway line as part of the Luton to Dunstable busway project. The site aims to enable public participation in the project by enabling the public to take advantage of volunteering opportunities if it succeeds. The site aims to enable public learning by educating the public about history of the old railway line, about the subsequent re - use of the land after closure of the line and the controversy over the re - opening the part of the line from Luton to Dunstable to passengers after heavy freight trains ended in 1989, vs the Luton to Dunstable busway. To enable the public learning the site has pictures, maps, written material and timetables on the group and links to external websites.

In 2001 Luton Borough Council stated to me that the ongoing environmental assessment of the Luton to Dunstable bus way project recognises potential heritage value of the railway line had been appreciated and if practicable then a very short length of line could be retained as a demonstration track.

In 2001 I investigated whether the council were willing to actively support the idea of retaining a very short length of line as a demonstration track and the response was good.

Since April 2008 myself and my fellow enthusiasts, Luton Borough Council Transport Strategy and certain planning officers of South Bedfordshire District Council have been working on a proposal for a short heritage railway wholly within Dunstable.

All parties have had to do a lot of work on the planning and legal requirements to establish which of the original set of options are possible to achieve and which are not.

The proposal for a short heritage railway centre revolves around use of disused land off Tavistock Street as a rail depot and museum with a short demonstration rail line using the long disused railway track from High Street North across the old railway Triangle, stopping at the projected path leading from Crabtree Way to Portland Rise or at the southern apex of the former railway Triangle.

Now it has been established what is practicable those involved with the project would be interested to receive some feedback. Readers are welcome to raise any planning concerns they may have once they have read through the details of the proposals on – line.

For success to even be possible the operation will need to attain a high level of organisation, with the formation of a society with a written constitution and a company with a name for each.

The plan will need extensive funding from external sources. Local council support at the earliest stages and grant aid or private funding later on.

Any suggestions on how to improve the scheme or offers of assistance are welcome.

It is hoped that a society can shortly be formed and then inaugural meetings arranged.

I have now sent off a letter to South Bedfordshire District Council which is a formal planning enquiry for the project, and also contains suggestions as to how to formally develop the project as requested by Luton Borough Council.

When I get a reply I will send a copy on to the forumn.

A copy of the letter can be viewed at the end of page http://www.freewebs.com/south_bedfordshire_railway/

There is an e mail list for anyone interested in the scheme at
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/D ... ay_Centre/

Alfred.

 

What is the length (yards or metres) of the proposed short demonstration line?

Chris

 

A couple of questions on the basic infrastructure of the scheme; I'm not that bothered about your loco/rolling stock aspirations initially.

I note that you state the ideal means to start with a short demonstration line is for the council to fund the basic infrastructure of the railway, and it to be operated by a supporting society; have you costed this initial stage? Have the council given you any indication as to whether funding would be forthcoming, or indeed whether they have any spare cash? One can imagine the outcry in the papers if it emerged that cutbacks were being made in one area yet the council were spending money on a 'train set' (as they would put it).

Have you any projections as to passenger numbers, for both of your present motive power options (DMU or industrial steam)? What are your revenue projections for the first 5-10 years, and how long would it take before you became self sufficient and not being run on council hand-outs?

 

Were the questions too difficult?

 

I like the idea of a demonstration line. It can demonstrate to the bus passengers a train whizzing past their guided bus as they get bounced around all over the place squashed up against a fat chav.

 

Does this group have any connection with the bunch that had a diesel shunter & a few wagons in an industrial siding near Dunstable Sainsbury's about 10 years ago?

They then decided to let themselves out onto the branch itself, and try and run a service without any sort of authority.

 

Thats id like to hear about =D> What happened?

 

I believe HMRI jumped up and down on them, and Railtrack removed the pointwork to their sidings.

 

Hi,

Answers,

The Luton Council seems to think that the retention of the single line can be funded from the bus way project grant because it would use money saved from doing extensive earthworks to convert the line near High Street North into a footpath but they haven't put a price on this to me. The lease on the land beside the line to be a depot would be around £75k per year on 20 year lease, or over a million to buy the land. Before the other items are designed we can't cost them, once designs are agreed any advice would be welcomed.

South Bedfordshire District Council have not, but they have said they cease to exist at the end of the month and then Central Bedfordshire Unitary authority takes over, which may alter matters. Luton Borough Council has not yet indicated whether they have any more money and there are other sources of funding such as east of England Development Agency (EEDA) suggested by Dunstable Town Council Town Clerk, and HLF (suggested by South Bedfordshire).

A political point which I have no control over I am afraid.

Not yet we are concentrating on the planning matters at present, but the location 30 miles from London, and the proposed heritage railway being the only preserved railway in Hertfordshire area (Luton and Dunstable are very near to the Bedfordshire - Hertfordshire border) and the proposed heritage railway being the only standard guage railway in Bedfordshire should help boost the numbers?

A point you have asked which I will seek look at, and which could be important in determining whether we go forward, but there has been a lot to do on the planning front which has been the main focus. How would you suggest I measured this?

I would point out that the council funding has not been agreed on or fully secured - yet - and in any case I would envisage that other funding such as grant aid would be needed as well. I would suggest as the measure of the answer to this question that the railway organisation would aim to become 'self sufficient' on building up the infrastructure, with the railway organisation able to get on with the task without recourse to the council(s). Once the railway started operating I do not think it would make any recourse to a council subsidy apart from a few one off start up costs i.e. insurance (cia £5k per anum?)

Yours,

Alfred.

 

No we do not have any connection to the South Midland Rail Group (2001) or ADAPT they only ran a diesel over a railway bridge.

 

Surely the council should be looking for some sort of (sound) business proposal before discussing the project in any detail. This would need to include an idea of revenue/passenger number projections - if only to explain how the project would pay for the £75k pa lease, let alone the additional running/development costs.

Richard

 

Hello,

Yes there have been developments.

1 - The planning officer for Large applications has written to me twice saying that there appears to be merit in the case that Part 11 Rights in 1995 General Permitted Development Order GPDO triggered by the old railway Acts and powers would remove the need for full planning permission.

2 - Routes for the extension from the South apex of old railway Triangle to the Park were demarcated but extension beyond South apex has proved to be impracticable and beyond the end of the cutting beneath Dog Kennel Path, impossible.

3 - I have submitted a full planning enquiry about the planning permission requirements for the proposal backed up by relevent legal data and also sought to develop the proposal in various ways (i.e. suggestions as to how to go forward, new plans and maps, updated the website and looked at possible rolling stock).

4 - The councillor for Planning Portfolio has asked to be briefed on the matter.

[The officer says :- "My Council's portfolio holder for planning, Councillor Tom Nicols, has asked to be briefed on your project and I have done so.

He advises that this is a matter which should be considered in the political domain and wishes to ensure that his officer's time is wisely employed."]

It has been established that as part of the formal development of the scheme we do need formal business proposals and also business plans for it. I do accept that yes, there is the issue of the rent on some of the land - should it be a 'subsidy' of some description or should it be included in the balance sheet of the operation year on year?

I am the first to admit that I do not know everything and there are many men here who know more than I do about lots of things.

Could people advise on matters such as some sort of (sound) business proposal, how to include an idea of revenue and passenger number projections for the first 5-10 years, and projections as to passenger numbers for both of the present motive power options (DMU or industrial steam)?

Alfred.

 

The project's website says:

"The solution is for the council(s) to secure the basic heritage railway infrastructure salvaged from the remains of the old Luton to Dunstable branch line then there needs to be council involvement in the management of the proposed heritage railway."

Are there any other heritage railways operating (successfully) in the UK under similar schemes?

Richard

 

... where the council has just "evicted" the voluntary organisation. Hopefully the Dunstable project has considered the risks of this in their project proposal.

Richard

 

Well the infrastructure of the Luton to Dunstable railway line is to be demolished and a bus way is to be built on top of the site, so a fair amount of infrastructure (fence posts, track, bridges parts and bricks etc) will become available and at todays commodity prices it will be a burden to dispose of it!

As for the management... Well I am acting on the problems that have been seen on other preserved railways elsewhere in the UK. I am sure that as the council will own the land they will want to know what is going on!

Alfred.

 

Response Luton Borough Council proposed heritage railway

Members,

Following the negotiations with the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council (protracted for both of us!) I am pleased to be able to state that the bus way team ARE definately prepared to entertain the idea of a short stretch of railway line being retained as a "heritage" railway line.

I received a letter dated 29 April 2009 on 05 May 2009 which states the terms upon which Luton Borough Council are prepared to deal with the proposed heritage railway project.

The bus way team at Luton Borough Council are going out to tender in the next few weeks to appoint a designer and contractor on the bus way scheme, and by this autumn they will be in discussion with the preferred contractor to finalise the work that is needed. The construction work will begin in mid - 2010.

In their letter of 29 April 2009, the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council state that if they are to advise their contractor that the track between High Street North and South Apex of Triangle should remain in situ and that other rail features (such as the point work along the branch at west apex and either end of the loop, and enough extra track for the sidings in the land to the south of the rail embankment at Tavistock Street) should be retained and stored at expense to the heritage railway organisation then the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council will need a FIRM COMMITMENT from the heritage railway by this autumn.

By this Luton Borough Council mean

1 - That the heritage railway organisation must be formally set up

2 - That there would be a high level of certainty that funding of the proposed heritage railway centre would be forthcoming by early to mid - 2010

3 - Luton Borough Council would require the completion of a legal agreement between the new heritage railway organisation and the council which would cover the mechanism by which the heritage railway organisation funding would contribute to the additional costs incurred by the bus way contractor.

To be able to meet these terms, if the heritage railway project is to progress we need to get a society established and company arm registered to provide a legal entity for the council to deal with set up and then funding and the required legal mechanisms in place, before the autumn of 2009.

It looks increasingly likely that the clearance of the vegetation [which is a serious problem along the disused railway from Luton to Dunstable, especially within Dunstable at the south face of triangle where the rails are obscured between Crabtree Way and the west apex] and the removal of the long - disused track will be undertaken by the contractors building the bus way after the land has been purchased from BRB Residuary LTD. This is because BRB Residuary LTD could not dispose of the track and get any kind of reasonable return on it, to off set the high costs of vegetation clearance and track removal, especially after the collapse in scrap steel prices in late 2008.

In their letter of 29 April 2009 reiterating the views stated in their letter of 22 October 2008 the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council state that the latest estimates of the cost of the Luton to Houghton Regis bus way are very close to the total government grant and that this imposes serious limitations on the items for the proposed heritage railway that can be funded from the bus way grant.

In their letter of 22 October 2008 the transport strategy and bus way teams at Luton Borough Council state that a handful of items (many of which are needed in connection with the bus way - open space project anyway) can be funded by the bus way project.

As Kirkby and Diamond, agents for the landowner of the pallet store land at Tavistock Street Central Bedfordshire Council and have said, there are some serious gaps in funding for the proposed heritage railway project, the main outstanding funding items which are of immediate priority are funding for things such as

1 - The lease or purchase of the pallet store land off Tavistock Street (in line with the outline application 00171 the proposed use of the vacant land has been shelved at least for now)

2 - For the retention and storage of the other rail features (such as the point work along the branch at west apex and either end of the loop, and enough extra plain track for the sidings in the land to the south of the rail embankment at Tavistock Street)

The location of the proposed heritage railway could mean that it will be a good position for attracting grant aid funding.

The London Olympics are to be held only 40 miles away in 2012, and the location is only a few miles from London Luton Airport near to a direct transport link from the airport. Luton is on a direct train link to and from Gatwich Airport and the station is served by the direct transport link from London Luton. So the proposed heritage railway will be in a good position to attract visitors to the 2012 London Olympic games. Bedfordshire does not have the best of reputations for tourism because it is easy to pass through it on one's way out from London and because of negative perceptions of the county and poor attractions. The proposed heritage railway would be the only standard guage heritage railway in Bedfordshire and the only heritage railway in Hertfordshire and so the unique nature of the attraction in the area would provide a major boost to tourism in the area. The location is only 30 miles from London and so it serves a generally wide catchment area. So the proposed heritage railway could attract a lot of tourists to the county who would not have come otherwise both during the 2012 London Olympics and later. Luton and Dunstable have above average levels of unemployment and the porposed heritage railway is situated in one of the more deprived areas of Dunstable (Northfield ward) to the North of the twon, which has none of the tourist attractions found elsewhere in the town. This should help the railway greatly in its quest to provide training and work placements for those on DWFL and ES schemes.

Yours,

Alfred.

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/D ... ay_Centre/

 

Re: Response Luton Borough Council proposed heritage railway

Surely this should read "attract visitors FROM the 2012 London Olympic Games"? :-k

Richard

 

Re: Response Luton Borough Council proposed heritage railway

why would anyone wish to do this? theres enough out there allready