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Preserved Barsi Light Railway (India) Kitson

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by houghtonga, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. houghtonga

    houghtonga Member

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    According to Robert Gratton's book "The Leek & Manifold Light Railway" one of ER Calthrop's "B class" 4-8-4Ts built by Kitson for the Barsi Railway still survives! It is basically a stretched version of the classic Leek & Manifold 2-6-4Ts and from the works photograph is visually very similar (including the distinctive cab design and headlight).

    The surving loco is No.11 (Kitson 4509/1907) "Lord Airdale" (but now carries the plates "Sir Alec") and is supposed to be preserved in front of the Indian Railways headquarters (zonal Headquarters office of South Central Railway, called Rail Nilayam) at Secunderbad. (Lord Airdale was the Chairman of Kitson).

    I woundered if anyone has come across a photograph of it?

    EDIT: Just found this on Google maps - there appears to be a green plinthed loco beside the main road at the end of the footbridge.
    http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ll=17.438572,78.510546&spn=0.001743,0.002205&t=h&z=19


    Best wishes,
    Gareth
     
  2. houghtonga

    houghtonga Member

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  3. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    Good morning,

    Here is a photo of the plinthed Kitson, I believe that the loco has been here for over 20 years. Also, another of the class may have been used by an industrial railway after being withdrawn by IR in the 70s - 80s.

    IRFCA - The Indian Railways Fan Club Photo Gallery - Sir_Alec.jpg

    http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Steam/Survivors/central/SirAlec_in_front_of_Rail_Nilayam.jpg.html

    http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Steam/Survivors/central/Sir_Alec_Side.jpg.html

    The irfca site will keep you occupied for hours if you enjoy Indian steam!!

    Cheers

    Alan
     
  4. houghtonga

    houghtonga Member

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    Thank you Alan

    I was not aware of the irfca.

    It is also a pleasant coincidence that Sir Alec has been preserved in something similar to North Staffordshire Railway 'Madder Lake' brown-red, as once carried by the L&MVLR locos and the W&LLR's SLR 2-6-2T several years ago.

    Cheers,
    Gareth
     
  5. paullad1984

    paullad1984 Member

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    Nice looking loco, isnt there some trouble these days about importing locos back from India? hmmm
     
  6. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    Good evening Paul,

    Yes, as Gareth has pointed out too, this really is a fine looking machine, I truly wish that I'd had the opportunity to have seen it working - along with many, many other Indian narrow gauge steam locomotives.

    As for re-importing anything from India, extremely difficult to impossible, especially those that are preserved as static exhibits, of which, there are a fair number distributed around the sub-continent. The good news is that they have been saved, plus, India is well aware of it's own historical legacy, even if some of the "saved" engines are just, effectively, dumped. Time will tell if they are finally restored and exhibited in any way. At least they still exist.

    Cheers

    Alan
     
  7. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Does the industrial one still exist? I'd certainly pay good money to see one of these on W&LLR!
     
  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest


    According to Col. Hughes' book on the Cypress Govt. Railway, this design suffered from inadequate firebox heating surface and were not especially successful on the steeply graded section for which they were ordered. Dull steaming engines are not a good idea on the W&LLR!


    P.H.
     
  9. dorian

    dorian New Member

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    Hi Nilayam,

    1. Which wheels have spokes and how many spokes for each wheel? My UK built Pearse's 2-6-4 in 15mm/ft (1/20.3 scale) has all the wheels as solid disc (no spokes)
    and I'm wondering if this is true on the real prototype's Kitson locomotives of the same class, such as the 4-8-4 shown in your photos.

    2. What were the thickness of the tyres? I think the thickness should be 4.5" or 4.75" for a 2ft 6inch gauge track with 5" diam. axles?

    If you can get close up photos of the wheels, that'll be great. The L&M's truck wheels were 1 ft 11 inches and the drivers were 2 ft 6 inches I believe.

    Dorian Nakamoto
    USA
     
  10. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    I cannot help but thinking that this is yet another locomotive design that had steaming problems the cause of which was never properly investigated.
     
  11. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

  12. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    For the sake of completeness there were at least two other ng Kitsons in India, both at the Saraya Sugar Mill. I believe they may both still exist. They are an 0-6-2 built in 1900 as wks number 3071 and an ex North Western Railway pacific wks number 5175 built in 1918. Here is a link to a 1980 shot of the former - can't seem to find one of the pacific at the moment.

    http://mickpope.zenfolio.com/p699110832/h84f52aa#h84f52aa
     
  13. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    next year I shall be attending my Daughter wedding (Part 2) in India and am excited to say I shall be visiting the Nilgiri Hill railway. Anyone know of anything else worth visiting in the vicinity of Mangalore/Bangalore?
     
  14. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    Sadly southern India is the least interesting part of the country railway wise as far as variety is concerned [the Nilgiri line apart] - most,possibly all, the metre gauge has gone and there never was much ng. Beware if visiting the Nilgiri line during the monsoon or even after it as washouts are common [I've never managed a trip yet after several visits]. Remember the flat upper section from Coonor [where the shed is] to Ooty is exclusively diesel and the steam rack locos work the lower section.

    Mangalore is on the new direct Konkan Railway route from Mumbai and sees a lot of long distance trains. Not a lot of variety in motive power - single cab Alcos, a slightly Hymek looking double cab passenger type and passenger and freight versions of typical General Motors designs. Still a busy system though. The irfca website will give you all the information you need. Interest inrailways, or 'railfanning' as they call it, has really taken off in India
     
  15. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

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    irfca? will search it out, thanks! Hymek sounds good to me...nothing much Heritage then?
     
  16. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    Main 'heritage' interest is in the north - Delhi for the National Railway Museum and Rewari west of Delhi on the line to Rajastan where there is a steam depot where some of the steamable locos are based. Then you have the Darjeeling and Kalka -Simla narrow gauge further still.

    If you are in Bangalore you could possibly take a day trip to Mysore which has a smaller railway museum with 5 metre and narrow gauge locos, several of them British built including a ng Kerr Stewart pacific.
     
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  17. dorian

    dorian New Member

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    Can anyone tell me if the Kitson's L&M 2-6-4 or Barsi 4-8-4's wheels are spoked or solid wheels?
    My Pearse's 15mm/ft scale live steam model running on 32mm or 45mm track has all solid wheels
    and i think this is incorrect. i do have a book with photos on L&M but the photos (too dark, too far away) couldn't help. i can make spoked truck and driver wheels from scratch.

    dorian
     
  18. houghtonga

    houghtonga Member

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    Dorian,

    Your model is actually correct according to line drawing illustrations in Robert Gratton's book on page 272 (produced from the Kitson drawings) - the kitson locos had solid wheels with six circular holes equilispaced around the diameter (both the 2ft 6in driving and 1ft 11in trailing wheels used on the pony and bogie). All the L&MVLR rolling stock had solid wheels wheels too, but they did not have holes (drawings and bogie photographs in the Gratton book testifies).

    The circular holes may explain the confusion with spoked wheels.

    Gareth.
     
  19. cncmodeller

    cncmodeller New Member

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    There were two other Barsi Light Railway Kitson 4-8-4 Locos that went onto industry :-

    Kitson works no. 4510 ' David Yule' 1907 to Equitable Coal Company Balidaha

    Kitson works no.5126 ' H.A. Adkin' 1915 to Walchandnagar Industries [ Sugar]

    Don't know of the fate of 4510 but 5126 was scrapped in 1971 unfortunately, just think what that would have looked like
    if it could have been brought back and restored in Leek and Manifold livery and displayed at Hulme End.
     
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  20. dorian

    dorian New Member

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    Hi Gareth,

    Thank you Gareth for your answer on the L&M 2-6-4 wheels. Sorry for not thanking you sooner.
    The info was helpful.

    Dorian
     
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