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Pathfinder Cumbrian Fells Express: 03/09/22

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 5944, Mar 11, 2022.

  1. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Found this on RTT. WCR Diesel(s) from Steamtown to Wetmore.

    https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U66420/2022-09-02/detailed
     
  2. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    Received ticket today and states it is Tangmere as advertised
    Neil
     
  3. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    Tangmere does appear to be near her limit, but the root cause of the slip, as with several others at that point was surely the flange lubricator. That seemed to set off the initial slip, and I wonder if the subsequent slip was at least partially due to residual grease?
     
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  4. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I wonder what the load limit over Shap for a Royal Scot was back in the day. I expect some of the LMS people here will know.

    I guess the nearest SR equivalent to Shap was Honiton. Looking at Winkworth's book with dozens of runs, the standard load for an unrebuilt WC seems to be 10. I can see one run with 13 on with a min of 21 at the summit and one eastbound by the famous 34006 with 12 on and a min of 45. There are some good runs up Roundwood, and some heavy trains on the SE section where I spent part of my youth viewing 73A's non-cleaned locos like 34066-70 doing their stuff up Sydenham bank.
     
  5. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture

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    Yes the flange lubricator was the cause of the slip and it catches many a steam loco out but most drivers are now waiting for the slip . Same thing at Scout Green as there’s one there an all .
     
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  6. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Asked the question and was told by Pathfinder that there will be a diesel on the rear tomorrow. Another grand down the tubes as it were. Still there's the entertainment of a mountainous stage of La Vuelta and The Hundred Final on so a big telly afternoon and evening with a few beers beckons.
     
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  7. bleeder4

    bleeder4 Member

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    I'm looking forward to it, diesel helper or not. Thanks for providing an empty table on a fully booked train. It might come in useful if I need somewhere to stretch my legs later in the trip.
     
  8. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    weather for Saturday is rain nearly all day, so i suppose they don't want problems with Tangmere unassisted over the hills
     
  9. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture

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    A repackaged Northern Belle.
     
  10. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    yes i was lucky to get a ticket for it, looking forward to tomorrow
     
  11. Antony Jenkinson

    Antony Jenkinson New Member

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    '30567' and Everyone,
    Hello!
    According to details shown in the excellent 'Operation West Coast' (Xpress Publishing) the load limits - applicable in 1956 - for a class 7P (BR classification for a 'Royal Scot' or equivalent - Not the former LMS classification which considered the Pacifics as '7P' and the bigger 4-6-0s as '6P') for the Carnforth - Shap Summit section were :- 'Limited Load' 420tons - schedule 42 minutes / 'Full Load' 465 tons - schedule 49 minutes - both schedules are 'pass to pass'.
    For the downhill section on to Carlisle the timings were 31 and 33 minutes respectively (giving overall schedules for Carnforth (pass) to Carlisle (stop) of 73 and 82 minutes.
    Trains working to the 'Limited Load' timings were allowed to convey loads up to 495 tons south of Carnforth and north of The Summit indicating that in order to maintain the schedule over the hills with a train of that weight a 'sock would need to be put on' from Oxenholme to Shap Summit.
    A present day 12 coach West Coast Railways train will weigh c. 450 tons empty.
    Best wishes from Tony.
     
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  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    All of which goes to show that the loads over Shap nowadays tend to be up on what used to go over unassisted back in the past. You do wonder why Network Rail allows it especially with the vastly increased average speed of trains over the line.

    I guess we should be grateful that they do!
     
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  13. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Thanks for that. I thought some trains especially heavy freight stopped at Oxenholme for a banker all the way but the heavier passenger trains stopped at Tebay. Anyway on those numbers, 12 would be on or over the limit for a 7P even if you regarded a WC/BB as fully the equivalent of a Scot over the hills, thinking adhesion etc. It's a shame for @1020 Shireman but I hope the others on the train have a good day. In rainy conditions, the smoke effects should be impressive!
     
  14. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Perhaps a combination of factors has led to the diesel. The much mentioned rain may amount to nothing more than a few light showers later in the day (Met Office) but could present adhesion issues on the return journey. The Met Office Fire Severity Index shows almost all of the NW as "high/very high risk"; the assessment being that the rain could be too little too late. Damned if it rains and damned if it doesn't! (Sunday looks better). There is no recent experience of Tangmere's ability (or otherwise) to take 12 coaches over Shap (unassisted) or to work anywhere without a diesel on the back. Finally, Tangmere is a valuable asset being the only 10A steam loco available for the Norther Belle. Not a satisfactory result for anyone with high expectations. Perhaps in more typical weather with say a 10 coach load . . . However, if anyone is travelling, and even with a diesel, Oswald would like you to record and post a time for the Ormside to Ais Gill climb. Thanks
     
  15. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Before I booked this trip in March I emailed Pathfinder to ask whether there would be a diesel attached and was advised "As proposed we are not expecting the diesel locomotive to be attached to the train when 34067 Tangmere is hauling between Carnforth – Carlisle – Preston", and I booked accordingly.

    After cancellation of the Tornado tours this was set to be only my second main line steam trip this year. Now an utter waste of time and money.

    Roll on 2023!
     
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  16. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    i dont think in March they could have predicted the weather.
    rumour is it will be the 2 newly painted 57's for the diesel legs
     
  17. 16Ventnor

    16Ventnor New Member

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    C'est la vie. It's my birthday so I'll enjoy a beer anyway when we get to Carlisle.
     
  18. Sean Emmett

    Sean Emmett Member

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    Pathfinder has advised me "due to the inclement weather we will be having a diesel on the back in case it is needed".
    'Inclement weather' on the Northern Fells is hardly unusual! A drought yes!
    Was really, really, looking forward to my first Bulleid over Shap.
    However, from youtube I saw what happened to BIL on its Edinburgh trip (early, no trains around for miles, but shoved like hell) so am giving this a miss.
    Maybe next time pick a load Tangers can cope with in all conditions.
    Don't mind paying a premium for proper steam, and a rescue diesel, but defo not shoved.
    Well at least I can have lie in and save the early morning taxi fare to Temple Meads if nothing else.
    Will use the time saved typing up piece on Russell's recent Dinas - Rhyd Ddu trips.
     
  19. Linesider

    Linesider Well-Known Member

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    Load 12 + 57313 Scarborough Castle.
     
  20. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    Stopped at Oxenholme due to passenger taken ill
    Waiting medical attention arriving
     

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