Motive Power

Whilst not wishing to disrupt the season of goodwill; other than standing in for failed steam engines and hauling departmental trains, what use have diesels on heritage railways?

 

Are diesels not heritage machines that deserve to be preserved so that future generations can see how railways used to be? don't forget that When Bluebell and many other early preserved lines started, steam was still an everyday sight on BR.

 

Diesels have as much a place in preservation as steam, although the general public would much rather a kettle.

They allow small preservation groups with only a couple of hundred yards of track and no space or facilities for steam. They allow earlier services due to their low set up time. They recreate another "gone" thing. Very few lines have an observation car, so the best view of the world rolling by is often from a DMU. And with the cost of keeping steamers going, having say 3 or 4 for the bigger lines all running at once is pricy and difficult, so diesels allows lines to flesh out their timetables to give passengers convenience.

 

You will forgive the SVR advert I hope. We run regular timetabled diesel hauled trains on selected dates through the season. We also run driver experience courses. The DMU gets used regularly including evening scenic cruises. I am older than many of the diesels we operate and remember them when new.

 

Charles has just about covered it - they allow earlier and later trains within manageable overall day lengths for crews, and for the longer lines seeking to provide a "day out", rather than a couple of hours' ride, enable a more frequent service to allow train hoping and visiting more places along the line.

The question does arise as to whether passengers would prefer a less frequent, all steam service but some pretty experienced "passenger facing staff" have told me that they feel the passengers prefer more journey options. The improved view afforded by DMUs is appreciated (in daylight - tends not to provide as much distraction from the bus style seating after dark!)

Steven

 

How many diesels are laid up compared to those actually used though? I'd say many will get scrapped in years to come

 

I think you may well be proved right.............................. there are one or two that I've "heard" are already destined for the melting pot due to the usual lack of funds/support/interest in said class of loco, probably due to the fact that X amount of the class already exist, yet we cling on to rusting Barry wrecks of kettles to one day hopefully see them steam again! And there appears to be more support for kettles than boxes to be resurrected from the dead! I wonder if anyone will be daft/brave enough to try and preserve any of today's contraptions, other than stuffed and mounted?.................................................

 

I hadn't noticed a huge difference in the age profile, though perhaps fewer in their late 60s and 70s.

I tend to think that there will be a number of diesels that will be scrapped over the coming years. To some extent the fact that diesels don't need a rebuild to comply with insurance regulations every 10 years hasn't done them any favours and allowed there to be an unwillingness to invest serious money in their maintenance or overhaul, without the consequence that the loco couldn't operate (until complete worn out or rotten). How many diesels have had a heavy general since preservation? There is a lot of money needed. more than I think will be available. The result is likely to be that those that aren't owned by a company that values their use, or an individual or group that wants to preserve them and can generate the funds, will possibly end up on the scrap heap, or as spare parts.

 

From another website:

Locomotive 37906 Sale – Ruston 906 Group to Europheonix

R906G is pleased to announce that it has concluded an agreement to sell its locomotive, 37906 to Europheonix.

For some time, the committee of R906G has been concerned that the number of the owning shareholders who are able to contribute to the continued maintenance and upkeep of the locomotive has reduced to an unsustainably low number. Therefore after careful consideration, expressions of interest in the purchase of ‘Slug 6’ were sought. Further a mandate of the shareholders was sought to possibly consider selling the locomotive.

With this mandate, we have now come to a written agreement to sell the locomotive to Europheonix. Their representative has indicated their intention to return the locomotive to operational condition and this was of importance to R906G shareholders.

It is a sad day in many ways, but subject to the successful conclusion of the sale, we hope that the longer term future of the locomotive is secured.

 

Diesel locos have one big advantage over steam motive power: In some cases--not all, I appreciate--you can "start up and and go", so having a diesel "thunderbird" can get you out of a serious operating difficulty if a steam loco fails in service and you have a train full of stranded passengers. "Sir Keith Park" had to be rescued on the SVR during 2013 when it failed midway down the line on a service train, and I think one of the class 20's was fired up at short notice.
Dave above mentioned the SVR and timetabled diesels haulage, which no doubt takes some of the strain off shed staff preparing steam motive power for an early start, and on some lines including the SVR--consideration for your neighbours.
Not all diesels are instantly ready to go though, some of the bigger ones need to warm up for a while.

I never thought I would say this, but, a ride down your favourite line in a DMU does give you a different perspective from the usual carriage window. At least it does on the SVR, particularly in Spring and Autumn.

46118

 

I tend to agree some will go. Locos belonging to solo owners and less financially well set up group locos will be at risk. Some groups owning more than one loco will downsize in numbers, this has already happened. If you have the money for Sulzers at least you can get most spares apart from crankshafts, with the expertise to clean and rewind generators and traction motors still available in the UK industry. Costs are and will be significant, most owners are not carrying out in depth cleaning of Traction Motors and Generators. If these flash over then for a full rewind and repair you are looking at £15k per motor and over £30k for a generator, not insignificant sums.

BRCW bodies are well known for rot and now need cabs and bottom body sides replated.

To get back to the original question 33063 was used to access a fallen tree yesterday yesterday on the Spa and we then ran the remaining Santas Top and Tailed to save time running round. In 2013 using the Thumper in midweek when we are used by walkers and cyclists etc we got enough passengers per day to put a few pounds in the bank when it would not be economic with a steam locos steaming fee and coal costs.

 

There is no doubt in mind about the usefulness. I think the main problems have been that there were too many chasing too little work, and that they were seen as "disposable". The disposability is already behind us, now railways just need to start to accept and budget for £100k overhauls (albeit that should see them through 10 to 15 yrs). BRCW bodies are really bad. I can think of three otherwise decent locos stopped because the bodywork / floor is so bad.

 

A big part of the problem comes from the fact that if you want to go and see a diesel you can go to any one of the active stations and have a ride to more or less anywhere you want. With the exception of those who are really interested in heritage diesel traction, they are unlikely to bring in the general public- who go to a heritage or 'steam' railway to see a steam engine- hence probably the reluctance to invest time and money for apparently little return I have certainly been put off in the past by visiting a railway whilst passing through and finding diesel haulage (didn't stop me having a tea and a scone in the cafe mind....) My guess would be that increasingly there will be a core of a few boxes that are maintained for thunderbird/p-way/departmental duties and many others will fall by the wayside.

Chris

 

I'm not so sure actually, remember no Diesels built post 1970's have Vacuum brakes, so a 66 or anything that might get preserved in future is rather useless without an air brake set of coaches, modern loco's can't deputise for steam at short notice therefore and you need additional stock and all that entails for them.

With that in mind, if you need an additional Diesel, a 37 or similar that needs work is still probably a cheaper option with far more use.

This is born out by comparing how many 37, 47, 25 etc have been preserved compared to air only classes 56 and 58, to operate vac only steam successfully, you need suitable vac stock and suitable vac fitted thunderbird diesels, and no more of them are coming, one day there will be no more vac loco's left freely available.

 

Do privately owned diesels get hired out in the same way as steam locos? (e.g. steaming fees)

 

that's what I said....one day there will be no vac locos left freely available....they will be beyond use or scrapped....check out the lists of preserved diesels....I think there are more than 40 class 37s for instance where realisitcly there is a future for a handful

 

I think that, historically, those involved with heritage railway volunteering like to preserve things that they are familiar with from their past. My generation was steam, the 70's/80's generation was first generation diesels. I can see the next generation wanting to preserve the 66's, etc. but that begs the question as to where they can run and what with? Unless Joe Public changes its ideas, steam is still going to be the main attraction on a heritage railway and, whereas a steam loco and a Cl25 are interchangeable command modules, steam and a Cl66 aren't. Are we going to see a new generation of heritage railways dedicated to the air brake era? Or perhaps I have got this scenario totally wrong and the next generation will have no allegiance to the big railway of their youth but the steam hauled heritage railway that they visited as a child? This, at least, will ensure continuity of some of the existing lines.

 

IMO will probably be restricted to charters, rail tours and museum pieces - possibly more like the USA trend of preservation.