how much is an out of ticket engine worth

has the preservation movement began to feel the efect of the credit crunch?
recently engines that have been reported for sale at fees that might proove to be more than what the market would stand

 

I think you may be a bit ahead of yourself with this. Can't really say too much more I'm afraid.

 

So why did you post this for all to see then?,surely either keeping ones mouth shut or a private mail would have been better, or are you stirring it?.

Regards
Chris

 

So why did you post this for all to see then?,surely either keeping ones mouth shut or a private mail would have been better, or are you stirring it?.

Regards
Chris[/quote:3166seap]
Because if I did it by private mail or keeping my mouth shut, people may potentially get the wrong impression from the thread and it may lead to issues/potentially jeopardise future deals, even if not necessarily connected to those mentioned. Some things are not generally in the public domain for a reason, and it is not for me to disclose them, save as to say the rumour mill is ahead of itself.

I don't do stirring, life's full of enough sh t without trying to lay it on.

Regards

Stewie

 

So why did you post this for all to see then?,surely either keeping ones mouth shut or a private mail would have been better, or are you stirring it?.

Regards
Chris[/quote:cunt2hov]
Because if I did it by private mail or keeping my mouth shut, people may potentially get the wrong impression from the thread and it may lead to issues/potentially jeopardise future deals, even if not necessarily connected to those mentioned. Some things are not generally in the public domain for a reason, and it is not for me to disclose them, save as to say the rumour mill is ahead of itself.

I don't do stirring, life's full of enough sh t without trying to lay it on.

Regards

Stewie[/quote:cunt2hov]

Can I politely suggest that we steer this back towards what engines out of ticket are actually worth IN GENERAL? Consider Ditcheat Manor. Out of ticket. Bottom end more rattly than an octogenarian's knee joints. Sold for c.£160k. The PDSR were after £300k for an out of ticket Prairie tank, that was thought to be in reasonable nick. The Swanage recently parted with a Peckett tank that was a jigsaw puzzle lover's dream. Wasn't that about £7k?

The reality is that an engine is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. You only have to look at the price Scotsman commanded to realise that. Does anyone know how much the Pontypool and Blaenavon engines sold for?

 

Agreed.

Just over £5k, obviously plus transport to Beal.

 

So why did you post this for all to see then?,surely either keeping ones mouth shut or a private mail would have been better, or are you stirring it?.

Regards
Chris[/quote:20owzg3k]
Because if I did it by private mail or keeping my mouth shut, people may potentially get the wrong impression from the thread and it may lead to issues/potentially jeopardise future deals, even if not necessarily connected to those mentioned. Some things are not generally in the public domain for a reason, and it is not for me to disclose them, save as to say the rumour mill is ahead of itself.

I don't do stirring, life's full of enough sh t without trying to lay it on.

Regards

Stewie[/quote:20owzg3k]


But by making a public statement on this thread you have ginen the rumour mongers something to think about havn,t you?

If you had said nothing this thread would have died a death and nobody would be any the wiser, 2 +2 =5.


Open gob engage brain later springs to mind.

Regards
Chris

 

Because the rumour mongers wouldn't have thought anything to the original statements, would they? All I have said is that the rumour mill is well ahead of itself; where is the contentious element of that?

Not entirely sure why the 'open mouth, engage brain' comment is relevant/helpful...

 

stewie, i dont know why your getting so het up all im asking is what are engines actually worth, railways / organisations are cash strapped and will have to sell off un wanted assetts they have their own idea of what value they would put on an loco as opposed to what the market will say it is worth unless i have information that you seem to think should have not been aired, the bit about the south devon was relayed by the south devon, the swanage railway by the owners of the standard tank no one has said , oh this is not to be repeated ,otherwise i would have kept quite about what i had been told

 

having discussed this many times with someone a engine is only worth what someone is willing to pay at the end of the day i know many 7.25 engines out of ticket would fetch possibly three quaters of what they would be if they had a ticket

 

Reverting to the original question, I'm not sure what the relevance of the credit crunch is. SLL, for example, have several Bulleids and face some enormous bills if they are to get them running again. It therefore makes sense to sell one of their operational locos to fund the restorations, but I would personally doubt whether a standard tank is worth 500K at the end of its ticket. It would also make sense for Swanage to reduce their reliance on SLL by bringing the tank back into their ownership, particularly as SLL seem to be fixated on restoring Bulleids that aren't that suitable for day to day service on the Swanage branch. Someone else has mentioneed Ditcheat Manor, and it is worth noting that this engine was on offer for a long time before the WSR stepped in. The SDR 2-8-0 remained unsold at its reorted asking price, which seemed rather high. You can ask, but you will not necessarily get!

It will be a shame if the SDR are selling off their Austerities as they are what got that line back on its feet when the Trust took it over, but I think that most dispaasionate observers would agree that they are better suited to shorter start-up lines, so if they can move on to somewhere like Helston and get that moving its surely better than being left to rust.

Even in a credit crunch there will be those who have spare cash and may be willing to use it to pick up a bargain (which the Austerities would seem to be at the price mentioned), and people die in the same way that they always have, leaving bequests to railways. These can bequite substantial and not always reported unless they are for really serious amounts, but most lines seem to like to keep them saved back against a large capital project. Also, at the moment, most heritage railways seem to be doing quite well in terms of the numbers of passengers they are carrying, although their income from donations etc. may have dropped, so there may be spare cash out there.

 

cct man wrote

snip

Perhaps you would like to make clear that I am not involved and that you were not, I assume, refering to me.

 

No Gordon I am not referring to you, just a commom enough saying that all.

BTW I have a great photo of you in all your finery when the first two mets went into service, Pm me if you would like a copy?.

Regards
Chris

 

Maybe you could put a formula behind it:

Scrap Value +
Cost of parts +
Cost of engineering +
replacement value of major parts / 30 years (Boiler / Tender)
= Sum total of Locomotive
/ 10 years expected life span.


Should we try a test ? Say something big for a mainline ticket..

£ 20,000 Scrap value
£200,000 parts
£100,000 engineering
£750,000 Major parts (Boiler/ firebox / tender etc)
£250,000 Mainline certification value ?
========
£1,320,000 = in ticket for 10 years.
£871,000 = out of ticket after 10 years (I.e. restored in the 1990's). [Previous Value *.66 (i.e. 1/3rd value)]
£575,000 = out of 2nd ticket (i.e. restored in the 1980s & 90s). [Previous Value *.66 (i.e. 1/3rd value)]
£380,000 = out of 3rd ticket (i.e restored 3 times since the 1960s). [Previous Value *.66 (i.e. 1/3rd value)]

Assumes no major high value work conducted, which could of course add value back to the original price.
Reflects the fact that after 3 x 10 year stints running, it's probably going to need some high value maintenace doing to it on its 4th ticket since the 1960s !

I'm sure there's someone else out there able to put a more mathematical approach to it.
Then there's always the "£xxx" for the wow factor to add to it's value.

Any other advance on that ?

 

Its all very well having fancy formulas but at the end of the day any item that is to be sold is only worth what somebody else is prepared to pay for it. If your valueing an item for insurance purposes to work out its full replacement cost then thats a different matter to its sale value.

 

This seems OK although I'm not sure about the scrap value being important except if the owner actually wanted to scrap it!

There are a few Barry engines left including the BB at Bury. During the recent boom the Railway Mag said the owners wanted £285k for this unrestored engine which I thought was on the high side. How much will it be worth now; £175k, less or more?

Please note that I'm not attempting to start a hare running nor am I being provocative, I'm just being curious.

Regards

 

I'm not surprised that the unrestored BB at Bury hasn't sold at an asking price of £175K. You could argue that its most valuable component is its boiler and as the NTM sold their spare A4 boiler (which has a copper, rather than steel, firebox) for ca. 25K recently its hard to see how one could arrive at a total value much in excess of £75K for the lot. I think "Sidmouth" changed hands for rather less than that a few years ago.

 

So why did you post this for all to see then?,surely either keeping ones mouth shut or a private mail would have been better, or are you stirring it?.

Regards
Chris[/quote:213ew4x2]
Because if I did it by private mail or keeping my mouth shut, people may potentially get the wrong impression from the thread and it may lead to issues/potentially jeopardise future deals, even if not necessarily connected to those mentioned. Some things are not generally in the public domain for a reason, and it is not for me to disclose them, save as to say the rumour mill is ahead of itself.

I don't do stirring, life's full of enough sh t without trying to lay it on.

Regards

Stewie[/quote:213ew4x2]

If Swanage railway are unable or unwilling to buy one of the 80xxx tanks maybe the MHR could step in and buy one.
[-o< [-o< [-o< [-o<

 

Wasnt it in a magazine that he was open to any offer, but from someone with the resources to restore it? If so, i suspect the latter is more of an issue especially at the moment.

Chris

 

I personally am not surprised that Swanage railway havent bought the standard 4 tank. They have often made queer decisions regarding locos, including giving away 35022 and one of the standard tanks. However, they need to do what MHRPS are doing, buy as many of their own locos as possible. It is not sustainable to rely on SLLs 8 locos and 2 other privately owned locos.