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Edward Thompson: Wartime C.M.E. Discussion

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by S.A.C. Martin, May 2, 2012.

  1. PoleStar

    PoleStar New Member

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    Agreed. Anyone interested in Thompson needs to start by reading the Peter Grafton biography. Clearly there is a lot more to tell and I await Simon's book with great interest.
     
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  2. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    By that logic, Daniel Gooch must have been rubbish
     
  3. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    When? Where? The lectures, I mean. I'm not trying to challenge you to a fight
     
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  4. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I’ll be lecturing at the Model Railway Club of London in October.

    I hope to be able to give more information on the second lecture closer to the date - but it is likely I will be giving the lecture to members of the Gresley Society.
     
  5. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    What's a weird interpretation about questioning the words 'disproportionate' and 'vitriol', both are way OTT, OK so dissent was probably not the right word but check again the definition of vitriol and explain how it's use is justified in your reply.
     
  6. Cambrian55

    Cambrian55 Member Friend

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    What?? I throw in few names more or less at random and you are extrapolating to find logic....:Facepalm:
     
  7. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    You are welcome to re read my posts on the previous page, and look at the historic quotations I gave. You and I hardly need be reminded of the various comings and goings on this thread.

    I don’t think you and I will necessarily see eye to eye on this one Ralph. We never have. I’m happy to agree to disagree.
     
  8. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I rather think he’s got the measure of what you said better than you have yourself to be honest.
     
  9. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    I've still some of my old NI kit in the loft. Do you want a flak jacket?
     
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  10. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    So you are quite happy that vitriol was the correct word to use in that instance... Can't you for once admit that you were wrong.
     
  11. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I must point out that most members of the Gresley society I have spoken to have been most amenable, in particular Mark Allatt and Ian McCabe, to hearing my views and encouraging I bring them to a wider audience.

    I haven’t as yet had any tomatoes thrown at me but there’s a first time for everything.
     
  12. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    No Ralph, I was not wrong to use that word.

    You and I disagree on this. Why, I’m not quite sure as you’ve been presented with evidence many times. Perhaps you are blind to it all?

    One of us has been on the receiving end of public vitriol over Thompson: both in real life and online.

    Thompson has had some pretty awful and indeed vitriolic things written about him over the last seventy years.

    That is fact.

    On that, that’s my final word. I was more interested in seeing what was out there in terms of Thompson’s work.

    I am grateful for the contributions given by interested members. Thank you all.
     
  13. Cambrian55

    Cambrian55 Member Friend

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    Do they allow hecklers to attend.....:rolleyes:
     
  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    If you wish to come debate with vigour, by all means do. I hope you will however be amenable to hearing and seeing what I have to say before heckling.
     
  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Isn't it odd how passionately many people champion their favourite engineer and are highly defensive or critical over alternative views? What I find strange about the Gresley/Thompson debate/argument is that there is so much preciousness about the issue and some really challenging comments. OVS Bulleid produced a wonderful locomotive of the time and we continue to enjoy the free steaming capabilities of his boiler. But RG Jarvis remodelled the locomotive into something far more appropriate of the time and we continue to enjoy the outcome of that work with one main line locomotive that demonstrates this in spades plus another starting to also gain that reputation.

    I am sure that there are folk with personal attachments and preferences to one of the two versions of the Bulleid Pacific but they both stand side by side as good in their own way and we don't seem to get the same level of 'vitriol' over them, I think. In that sense I share the view of @Spamcan81 in that surely it has now all been said on Thompson and just needs the public to read, digest and reach their own view, as doubtless will be the case of the many book reviewers.
     
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  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    There is a great deal of friendly rivalry over the merits of Bulleid Pacifics versus the detuned Jarvis versions :) but I have come across a few fundamentalists whose minds are closed completely to any debate on the matter.
     
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  17. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I have been very sorry to read this latest flurry of postings with so much criticism of each others' statements. Naming no names, I see instances of "My mind is made up. Please don't cloud the issue with facts" and "Anyone who disagrees with me is wrong". (And yes, probably all concerned will think that this is oh-so-true of the other guy and not of themselves.)
     
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  18. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    That's brave!
     
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  19. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I dunno Mellish, this all stemmed from a comment regarding how whatever was left of a designer somehow did or didn’t reflect well on his legacy.

    People are welcome to make their own minds up; the issue for me is having to challenge seventy years of one specific way of thinking with as many facts and figures that I can muster.

    It’s surely reasonable to challenge the established thinking if we have evidence for it.

    For myself specifically, anything I say or do in favour of Thompson is often taken as a slight on Gresley, which it emphatically isn’t.

    I cannot win.
     
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  20. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    And for my part I have been appreciating the Jarvis rebuild more and more recently. A small peace offering from me - she really is a beauty.

    CE73CCC7-9C2A-417B-A09D-A0AEC5BAE7FE.jpeg
     
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