Crewe Heritage Centre for Sale

Apologies if posted elsewhere (I have searched) but Railway magazine page 97 contains an advert from Cheshire East Council offering Crewe Heritage Centre for sale by way of a 125 year lease. "Cheshire East Council is seeking to establish a long-term viable future for Crewe Heritage centre and is offering for sale a long leasehold interest in the site".......

I hope someone is found to take it on as the Signalboxes there offer a real opportunity.


Googling:

http://moderngov.cheshireeast.gov.uk/ecminutes/Published/C00000417/M00003937/AI00013252/$01CreweHeritageCentrereportPART1.docA.ps.pdf

http://www.crewechronicle.co.uk/cre...entre-lease-sell-off-decision-96135-29372713/

 

Highly likely that others will find themselves in this situation where cash strapped local authorities are more or less forced to divest themselves of ownership of anything which is not core to the provision of basic services to provide a few more quid.

A number of steam centres & even entire railways operate on land where the freehold is local authority owned.

 

This is a strange proposal as the blurb says that any sale of the 125 year leasehold for a single premium payment will also include user clauses restricting the site's use to its current railway heritage purpose - for which there is a very restricted market.

That is not to say that there is no market - Mr Waterman - but it does restrict the availability for developers to march in and do a Dinting straight off.

Interesting times!

 

To clarify the situation regarding the Heritage Centre. We currently have almost 30 years remaining on our lease and this is not in question. As with most councils, money is tight, and by selling a head lease (as the Council refer to it), they are hoping someone will come along and provide additional funding for the Centre. Since 2007 the decline in the Centre's fortunes have been reversed and we have been increasing both revenue and visitor figures year on year. At present there are currently issues on site which the Crewe Heritage Trust are seeking to resolve in order to bring the Centre back to its intended role of reflecting the town's overall heritage, not just the railway aspects, although the latter forms a major feature by virtue of Crewe being a railway town and also the nature of our unique location. Those areas of the site outside the Council boundaries are still owned by Network Rail and leased to the Trust, this included the North Junction signal box. We are currently putting together plans to celebrate both the Centre's 25th Anniversary next year and also the 175th Anniversary of the town and are working with local business, TOCs, historical societies and the tourism sector to make this a major event for the town and the Centre starting at Easter 2012. Our 'Friends of Crewe Heritage Centre' supporters organisation is growing steadily and we are always on the lookout for more volunteers to assist with the operation of the Centre. So despite some of the recent press releases we are not closing down but are here for the long haul.

 

Thanks Ralph, my pleasure to set the record straight. I forgot to mention that unlike in previous years, we are remaining open at weekends throughout the former closed season (October to Easter), weather permitting of course!! We have a Family Fun Weekend this coming weekend (8th/9th) in conjunction with BARR Construction, the builders of the new Tesco Extra at Crewe, which should be something different from our usual events with various construction vehicles present, plus goody bags for the kids all done with the assistance of the construction company as part of their good neighbour policy. We also have our regular Autumn Railwayana Auction taking place on Saturday October 29th when the LNWR Steam Crane purchased by Dave Lewis will be on display. We will of course have all the other usual attractions on offer as well. Let me know when you are intending to come down to the Centre and I will update you on some of our future plans.

 

Visited Crewe today. Small turnout for the family day but interesting. You can see the potential but also the problems the Council refer to. The engineering operation pays the bills but detracts from the site and has spilled over into the display hall. The "informal leases" presumably include the various preservation groups but also sundry model railway and radio enthusiasts. Not sure all of these add to the centre.

The Signal boxes (3) are superb, there are some good displays and it was great to see a tilting train with big windows and tables........and several without.

 

While I cannot speak for other groups, it most certainly is NOT the case that Exeter West is on the site on an 'informal lease.'

When we came to Crewe in 1991 we were astonisjed to find that the Heritage Centre was occupying the Council-owned part of the site on a licence. One of our members insisted that a lease was arranged and this resulted in the granting of the fifty-year lease which still exists (and which LNWRHCo. are taking advantage of.) We also made sure that a tri-partite agreement was drawn up between ourselves, Crewe Heritage Trust and Crewe & Nantwich Council (as it then was) setting out in detail the rights and responsibilities of all parties. That agreement remains in force.


Unfortunately when Mr. Waterman came on board around 1994, the Trustees were incredibly negligent in allowing him to occupy part of the site without any formal, written agreement. We tried to achieve this when I was a Trustee (see the article 'Crewe's Railway Age in Crisis,' 'Steam Railway' magazine, December 1998) and failed and all subsequent attempts by the current Trustees to make Mr. Waterman negotiate and sign a proper agreement as to the detail of his occupation and use of part of the site have also failed. Because LNWRHCo. staff are on site six days a week the Trustees and volunteers often find themselves presented with a 'fait accompli' when another part of the site has been occupied. A while ago a portion of the Exhibition Hall had been equipped with a new display centred on a restored LNWR TPO coach but this was removed by LNWRHCo. in order to provide space for the 'apprentices' to work on the WHR Garratt. I understand that all of this was done without the prior knowledge or consent of the Trustees.

While the rent paid by LNWRHCo. is an important part of the Centres' income, their arrogant behaviour is a constant cause of conflict, and it is only to be hoped that they can be 'brought into line' in the not-too-distant futre so that the environment in the Centre can be improved.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

P.S. You might be interested to know that a few months ago the bailiffs were called in, after LNWRHCo. witheld the rent that was due.

 

One fact that I omitted to mention in my previous posting (and apologies for the spelling errors that got through) is that both Crewe Heritage Trust and the Exeter West Group lobbied Cheshire East Council asking that the decision to sell this 125-year lease be deferred. The decision was referred to a Council Scrutiny Committee and the members of that committee voted by a majority to recommend that the decision be deferred for two years. Councillor Macrae chose to ignore the clear wishes of this committee and go ahead anyway.

So much for local democracy...................

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

For my Group's interest I have obtained the sale documents for the Crewe Heritage Centre lease from Cheshire East Council. There are a couple of interesting paragraphs regarding what will influence the choice of successful tenderer. The first says:

'The prospective lessee will need to clearly demonstrate a history of their involvement in and/or management of similar sites.'

It is difficult to imagine that there are many people who could fulfil this criteria, given that there are very few 'similar sites' in existence. And in any case, they may not be able to 'manage' the site for thirty years because of the existing lease.

The second says:

'The prospective lessee will be required to demonstrate the perceived added value that could be offered to the site and occupiers in the presentation of the rail heritage of Crewe and the promotion of training/employment opportunities in the rail industry.'

This , of course, is the crux of the present problem, in that the 'heritage' and 'engineering' aspects do not sit well together. And, of course, if the successful tenderer is unable to conclude a satisfactory deal with Crewe Heritage Trust, there won't be a lot they can do about it for another thirty years.

Finally the documents state that the rates for the site will be £47,196 per annum on the current scale. To be able to afford business rates on that scale (the word 'exorbitant' springs to mind) the lessee is going to have to be able to generate a significant income. Where is that to come from?

Frankly I don't think you're likely to get killed in the rush to take on this lease.

Peter Jordan

Chairman, Exeter West Group

 

Couldn't agree more, Peter - there again a charitable organisation can get derogation from some / all of the annual business rates obligation :wink:

 

Who pays the rates now? They certainly do not appear in the accounts. Its a stonking amount.

http://www.charity-commission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends61/0001011961_AC_20100331_E_C.PDF

If admission fees are only £20k thats only about 4,000 visitors a year. Therein lies the problem.

 

My understanding is that Crewe Heritage Trust pay the rates for the part they occupy/use and that LNWRHCo. pay the rates for the part they occupy/use. I think that CHT, as a charity, get the derogation.

The curious thing about this situation is that, while Councillor Macrae claims that the arrangement between CHT and LNWRHco is informal and irregular, Cheshire East Council are quite content to claim the rates that are payable from this informal and irregular situation. That seems to imply some kind of acknowledgment/consent in my book. But then perhaps I'm just a simple soul.

Peter Jordan

 

Would this effect summer trips out of crewe? I know this is very single minded but that would be a whole slew of trips lost maybe? I'm sure several of us hope not.

 

I would not think so. Bear in mind what has already been said - anyone who buys the 125-year lease will be legally obliged to allow the existing lease to Crewe Heritage Trust to run its course.

Peter Jordan

 

Any Council, in exercising its functions must be mindful of what it may consent to in taking unconnected actions. A rateable occupation gives rise to an abligation to pay and to collect, but where an occupation is on Council land an implied approval may have occurred - BUT - this is likely only to be an approval of the physical fact of occupation, not acquiescence in its terms or duration.

 

Yes, but what is there to do there??? I live 5 mins away and i wont pay to visit. there is nothing there. To me every time i go down all i see are a bunch of children playing with model trains or playing on the miniature railway. No one seems to want to tidy up, paint things to make it look smart. Give a professional look with say a uniform?

take a look at http://www.creweheritagecentre.co.uk/attractions.html
compare it to http://www.steam-museum.org.uk/steam/steam-locomotivesandrollingstock.htm

I really wish it was good at Crewe but im afraid in my opinion its awful. I love Exeter signal box. And the guys up there are always interesting and showing you the box. But the rest of it is very poor. I don't understand Why there is an american layout filling up the room with the best Views? I understand there is the ongoing feud with Pete Waterman but that shouldn't stop general maintenance. Hopefully someone will take it over and improve standards and actually give people something to see.