Building replica rolling stock?

Hi Guys, I know the heritage railway industry has grown up over the past few years and seeing that the 2ft gauge Lynton and Barnstaple Railway has rebuilt two coaches.

However I was wondering how long will it be before one of the standard gauge railways commissions the building of replica steam day carriages, I am thinking in terms of the likes of either the Somerset and Dorset, or the Midland and Great Northern at Sherringham.

What do you all think on here? and if not the above, then what item would you like to see built as a replica?

 

well it has technically already been done with replica 4 wheel carriages and older bodys on modified chassis and really any 1960 stock we don't need any as despite the state of some we have not ran out of mk1's to restore and there are still plenty of mk2's about so i doubt we will and im not sure of the cost as they are all steel rather than your wooden body on an steel under frame, but i guess if there was evr need for them some carriages have had major structural work and new skins so i think it is possible and achievable but not needed just yet.

 

Saying that there are plenty of Mk1s and 2s to restore is like saying 'don't build Tornado, there are loads of Austerity tanks around'. Nothing wrong with Austerities or Mk1s but surely the point is interesting coaching stock of which there are no restorable examples, or to perhaps to fill gaps in a prototype train, so for example, a train of Great Eastern bogie stock would require new builds to go with the GER BTK at the NNR and the Boston Third at the EARM

 

Trouble with building stock like GER bogies... is the lack of GER locos to run with them.

More Big 4 coaches would be my bet... when you look at those 1950's/60's branchline photos.. they werent mark 1s... but they werent 4 wheelers either.

 

Agreed. It was just my fantasy and if I had the money to do that I could probably afford the Claude to pull them and just to correct myself mixing the 1907 NNR BTK with the 1921 Boston third wouldn't warrant the word prototypical. Digging around I noticed that there is another GER (non-royal, director or inspection) bogie coach around at Mangapps, again 1921 but made of two ex six wheelers mounted together on a bogie frame

 

I would love to build an NSR Saloon for use at CVR, and if finances were unlimited a set of 6 wheeled NSR coaches similar to what was the norm around the Potteries in the early 1900s.

 

The Isle of Wight steam railway have 6 original IWR grounded bodies which they intend to restore in due coach. However none of the 6 are brake coaches, so I believe the plan is to build a replica brake coach to complete the set.

I can't see replicas ever being built on a grand scale though. Probably just one offs by railways that have a track record in restoring historic coaches, such as the IOWSR and Bluebell.

 

Would they do it on a contract basis for other lines though?

 

Can't see the Bluebell ever doing contract work for other people - too much work restoring and maintaining our own rolling stock. We have casually talked about a Brighton balloon coach, but only idle chat, not a serious plan!

I believe that coming up with a generic 6 wheel underframe design is a project that has been discussed in C&W circles - there are plenty of victorian bodies available, but not so many suitable underframes, especially six wheel ones.

Tom

 

there's no need for replica hauled-stock...there's more genuine stuff out there rotting than you could shake a stick at

 

As Jamessquared/Tom says it's not so much the lack of 4-6 wheeler bodies [as there are plenty of chicken coops kicking around] that's the problem it's the underframe/running gear. So a generic 4-6 wheel underframe would be idea, but a bit like the old industrial loco builders who'd have a range of 4-6 wheeled steamers in their brochures complete with a selection of different sized cylinders too boot, depending your needs........

 

Isn't there any usable frames in Europe worth having ? Poland seems to have sidings of old 6 wheel frames used for engineers use etc (mostly wooden body and rotten too), so not much effort to get to a frame... Take off the steps they will be in gauge.
Sures there's some useful vans there too.

 

Building new underframes for 4 and 6 wheeled stock should not be prohibitively expensive. Two new purpose built galvanized steel underframes were recently supplied to IoM Rlys for F27/8 to replace the rotten wooden originals. IIRC they were 7k each. O.K. you would have to add W irons, axleboxes , springs and wheelsets etc but they could largely be salvaged items. Just my 2p worth. I wouldn't like to see any more BGZ's etc being scrapped just for their underframes.
Ray.

 

The hint is in the name "Stanegate Restorations and Replicas" - although it was a 2ft replica Ashbury !!!!

There is nothing to stop anyone with the funds commissioning the building of a standard or broad gauge replica carriage, by a specialist contractor.
As has been said already, there are still a lot of unrestored vehicles out there that need attention, as well as dreams such as replicating "missing examples" like the NSR Saloon ........

 

Well Stone Road, you had better get your tape measure ready, what with the PRISM grant for £18,000 about to be made public ( I just did ! ) and the movement to Stanegate Restorations of this coach we should have two NSR coaches finished by the end of the year. The tape measure is to record 61's construction as 50% of the new build NSR brake will be the same as the seated area of no 61.

Mr D will be sending you a pack of finished hinges for 127.

The "Knotty Trust" has a the desire to build a replica NSR passenger brake, shown on the website - and we may have a frame on the cards....( you know what we are like ! ). And whist we are at we have a desire to restore NSR 1st 28 before its too late ( not in our care at the moment ).

 

Don't be under the misapprehension that any recreation of wooden bodied stock will be cheap even in the event of ultra skilled volunteer labour being available. There is no point at all in doing such work if the wood used is less than the best or all that work will be wasted by virtue of wood rot or cracking or splitting. Henry Crun of the Goon Show used to bewail "They can't get the wood you know". In fact "they" can get the wood but at a price.

PH

 

Agree on both counts, but that’s why the Knotty Trust works on the basis that we are good at fund raising, we are good at metal bashing ( 2 frames modified to date ) and we use the ultra skills of Stanegate for the coach work. They use only the best material.

We have given the matter some considerable thought and have concluded that a replica passenger brake would be no more difficult than the work already carried out on the 135 year old NSR 127 - on the last lap of a year’s rebuilding at the moment. Its place taken will be taken by NSR 61 of the same age, 50% of the passenger brake is a carbon copy of what we have.

We have a taken on construction of the shed at Foxfield Colliery to provide cover and are looking at funding at the moment.

After that, we move on to either one of the two Midlands - or one of number of body’s off site at the moment. It’s too early to say if the brake replica will be next - but as of last week, we think that we have a frame to create a 20ft chassis. We could "spend" this on one of two projects that we have in mind. And yes we understand costs - we have been thinking about the brake project for over a year.

Can a NSR passenger brake replica be built - of course, my guess is that within two years construction of the body will be in hand, some of the first small items are already available. All the Patterns for locks, hinges, handles, etc etc will be the same - we have spent £4000 in the last few months on castings for 61 & 127, machining in house.

 

Well, you said it - this was before the Rudyard discoveries ....................

 

Hello,
Under frames are expensive to rebuild.
Certain axle boxes that the 813 fund could do with are unavailable unless patterns castings are produced.
A simple W iron for a wagon would have to be cut from steel sheet......
Possible very expensive...unless multi produced.

Putting coach bodies on wagon frames is OK if you like a lively ride...the frames were designed for no human transportation....unless the springs are replaced or modified.
Possible yes....rebuilds......costly oh! Yes!

The Railway Heritage movement has plenty of 'Linear Scrapyards' as some name un restored stock.....rebuilds?

I would first get covered accommodation, for all rolling stock.
Pointless spending thousands to restore a vehicle only to have the weather destroy it.

Need examples?






Nick
GWR 813 Fund

 

I was chatting to someone from the Foxfield recently as IIRC some of the Knotty coaches are on wagon underframes. The same question of weight on wagon springs was being asked but so far they have been faring ok.