If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

BR steam on London Underground tracks

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by neildimmer, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. neildimmer

    neildimmer Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    236
  2. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    1,511
    What are you wondering about? This could have been at any time from when the GC became the LM Region's responsibility to when the line north/west of Harrow was quadrupled.
     
  3. neildimmer

    neildimmer Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    236

    Just wanted confirmation as someone asked me the question

    Neil
     
  4. Eightpot

    Eightpot Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Messages:
    5,844
    Likes Received:
    897
    Location:
    Aylesbury
    Yes, but were/are the GC tracks electrified? A while since I went that way.
     
  5. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    12,692
    Likes Received:
    8,896
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
  6. brmp201

    brmp201 Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2010
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    178
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    IT Director
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    GC is LU electrified from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham. There are some good cab ride videos available:

     
  7. 5801

    5801 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    79
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The state of the rebuilding of the station puts it shortly before 17 June 1962, when the four-tracking was brought into use through the new platforms at Northwood. Fascinating picture for us locals, as the steps in the picture, leading from the new station concourse to the old southbound platform, now give access to the northbound platform, which is taking shape behind the hoarding in the picture.

    The old lines on which the train is running then became the fast lines, and the platform faces in the picture were demolished, with a wall being built on this side of the steps.

    Stuart J
     
    CLN_WVR and Monkey Magic like this.
  8. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    1,511
    I lived in Northwood for a few years, but long after the quadrupling. Before that I lived near Bushey station on the WCML and very seldom used the Met. I hadn't realised that the new tracks went in on the east side, needing new platforms at Northwood for the new slow lines. That seems a lot of extra work, so presumably was dictated by availability of land. And why did they bother to demolish the old platforms rather than leave them in place for occasional use?
     
  9. 5801

    5801 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    79
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes, putting the new lines on the east avoided any demolition of property. Moor Park, junction for the Watford branch, was given platforms on the fast and slow lines as an interchange station. IIRC, four platforms at Northwood were part of the original pre-war plan for the four-tracking, but the scheme was trimmed back before it was restarted in the 1950s.
     
    CLN_WVR likes this.
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    3,688
    Likes Received:
    1,511
    What's most ironic about all this is that not long after the four-tracking the GC was closed and the service from Marylebone was cut back to Aylesbury and, with further changes more recently, outside rush hours the Metropolitan trains for Amersham and Chesham stop at all stations from Harrow, so the fast tracks carry only the two Chiltern trains an hour each way.

    At what is now my local station, North Harrow, there is a permanent exhibition of photographs showing the development of the station and the trains over the years.
     
    CLN_WVR likes this.
  11. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2013
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    288
    Gender:
    Male
    Lots of absorbing detail presented by this image of the Met & GC Joint in transition, and the informative posts commenting on station rebuilding/ platform reconfiguration and quadrification are particularly interesting. Here's my two-penn'orth on the approaching train, which I'm certain is travelling in the Up direction.

    Studying the image closely, it does rather look like 45493 is hauling a rake of non-corridor stock rather than the short 4- and 6-corridor coach formations of Mark 1 stock that typified the steam-hauled semi-fast services around this time (1961/ 62). This would suggest that the train depicted is an Up "Ord" service (GC section shorthand for longer-distance all-stations services). A typical non-corridor 6 coach formation was commonplace for these services, which originated in the main from at least as far north as Woodford Halse (69 miles) and in a couple of cases beyond (a real challenge to the bladder on occasion for those condemned to longer-distance journeys, given that end-to-end speeds barely achieved an average of 30 miles per hour inclusive of stops).

    Time of day?? Well, there were only five daytime Up Ords via the Aylesbury route, and very unevenly spaced through the day. Three arrived at Marylebone before or by 11.00am, then one mid-afternoon and finally one early evening. So, just supposition and surmise, but a 60% chance that this would have been an early/ mid-morning view.

    These services were almost entirely rostered for 5 MT haulage, which, over the three-plus years that had elapsed to the likely date of this image since the March 1958 LMR takeover of GC section services, had seen a progressive (but not total) migration from B1's to Black Fives. Stopping services at local stations north of Aylesbury, as provided by the Ords, were withdrawn from March 1963, and the sight of non-corridor BR stock from that time on over the Met & GC Joint must have been a comparatively rare occurrence, though sometimes still possible when the remaining semi-fast Marylebone-Nottingham Victoria services went awry - a not unknown occurrence.

    I couldn't find any history of shed allocations for 45493, but a little research indicates that this locomotive was still very active on GC section services some four years later, right through to the days immediately prior to closure of the route north of Aylesbury after 3rd September 1966. The title page of Robert Robotham's/ Frank Stratford's "Great Central from the Footplate" (Ian Allan 1988) has a nice image of 45493 on Big Al's aforementioned 14.38 semi-fast, awaiting departure from Marylebone on 1st September - three days before closure. Coincidentally the RPS database contains four logs of this locomotive working the daily York-Bournemouth via the GC main line through train south of Banbury (it was steam worked south of Banbury more-or-less right up to the end) - at dates in April, May and finally August 30th, two days prior to the photograph mentioned above. A busy locomotive indeed, and not one that I can recall was besmirched by any of the horror stories about the condition of other Black Fives that seemed to plague their use on GC services in the final days and weeks.

    Hope all this may be informative. For many, anything to do with the final years of the Great Central Main Line will often be of consuming interest, and for me, its a particular passion.
     
    CLN_WVR and Nick Gough like this.

Share This Page