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60163 Tornado temporarily withdrawn.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by frazoulaswak, Jun 28, 2010.

  1. frazoulaswak

    frazoulaswak Member

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    I've just received notification from the A1SLT that another failed firebox stay has been discovered at the weekend. As a result ALL of Tornado's booked engagements in July have been cancelled up to her journey to the Bluebell Railway at the end of the month pending an investigation of the problem.
     
  2. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    I just wonder how common failed firebox stays were in the days of steam? Anyone got any experience/knowledge of that?

    Of course the regime was totally different back then. And a loco taken out of service for a short while to rectify what could have been seen as an almost routine maintenance job would not have shown up to even quite serious observers like us fanatical SR steam loco timers. There were always spare locos around to "cover up". Even if it meant putting a Standard 5 in knackered condition out on the Bournemouth Belle. And yes, that did happen!

    Back to 60163. I haven't travelled behind this loco yet. But am aware of the outstanding performances she is putting in. Just hope the problem(s) gets sorted soon.
     
  3. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Bryan

    Don't leave it too long. Having swept over Shap and Ais Gill with her last week, she does turn out a good performance when driven well. Mind you, all these record breaking attempts are fine as long as the A1ST keeps the long term interests of the engine at heart. Something I'm sure they do as a matter of course.

    Alan
     
  4. Yorkshire Exile

    Yorkshire Exile Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    We NEVER set out to break any records!
     
  5. ernestmembaar

    ernestmembaar New Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Just wonder how much this has to do with either modern all welded boiler construction or the fact these are now normally built using stays with tell tails so breaks are literally 'visible' through leaking steam (I assume the stays on Tornado have this feature?)
    On the Ffestiniog both David Lloyd George and Taliesin have modern welded boilers and both have noticeably suffered stay failures in recent years.
    The double engines are particularly prone to stay failures given the stresses on a boiler which is cradled between two bogies and subsequently 'bounces' a fair bit. However the Earl, which has an older riveted boiler and stays without tell tails, didn't reveal any stay breakages until the boiler was ultrasonded at last overhaul.

    Karl
     
  6. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Well-Known Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Fingers crossed she'll be repaired before the Bluebell visit.
     
  7. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    I'm still stuck in a SR time warp Alan! But the lack of ex SR locos at present is making me take an interest in other types. And I did enjoy the run around Kent with 44871 recently. 60163 will get on the list soon. Out of Kings Cross it will have to be!

    Incidentally, did that list of dates I am missing logs for get to you via PM? I checked my "Sent" Box and it isn't in there, so I think it may have pressed the wrong buttons when I tried to send it to you.
     
  8. class8mikado

    class8mikado Well-Known Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    - Maybe the Driver fancied a pop at it of his own accord whilst Mr Bunker got soot in his eye and the TI was looking for the clean tissues - ?

    Whos we ?,

    No doubt the crew were only trying to 'make up a bit of timetime'
    One of the ambitions of the A1SLT is i believe to take the 'blue riband for the ascent of shap' though i dont think youll find that in writing (though i bet i could if i tried).
    ButI dont think for a second that Tornado has been thrashed or has accomplished anything other than what you'd expect from a good run with a nearly new Peppercorn Pacific and I dont think theres any need to be defensive here - other than the worry that if stays are failing how many more are on the way to doing so...?
     
  9. David-Haggar

    David-Haggar Active Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Yep let's hope, or else it'll be our Sheffield Park workshop lads who will have to repair yet another broken visiting loco.
     
  10. 46236

    46236 Active Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Suppose its like all new machines, weaknesses start to show after a while and have to be rectified. Lets hope its not a recurring issue.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Just wondering about the stays on this loco. Does anyone know if it has flexible stays in the breaking zone or is it stayed completely with normal stays?
     
  12. Eightpot

    Eightpot Part of the furniture

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    On seeing this boiler at the 'Open Day' at Darlington before the boiler was mounted on the chassis, both a friend and myself had reservations about some of the construction features, but potential broken solid firebox stays wasn't one of them.

    If I had a boiler that was having this sort of problem after less than two years senvice I think I'd have some serious questions needing to be answered.
     
  13. Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    may sound a bit silly but as the stays are welded in would this cause a weak spot as they will be hardend in the outside and softer further down there length thus causing possible problems
     
  14. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    That's a bit unfair given the extra visitors 60163 would bring to the Bluebell to be moaning about a repair that would be very unlikely to be undertaken at Sheffield Park anyway.

    The Boiler/Firebox was something of an unknown when it comes to the British Mainline scene so will be something of a learning curve, look at all the trouble the new class 172 Units are giving in testing, new doesn't mean immune to occasional failure.
     
  15. Big Al

    Big Al Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    I guess so as nothing has come my way yet!
     
  16. buzby2

    buzby2 Active Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    I believe I remember correctly being told that 60163's stays are hollow. I wonder if this is standard on all German main line loco welded boilers?
    If so, I presume they must have minimal problems to carry on installing them. Do we do things differently in the UK regarding loco operations/water treatment/maintenance/etc.?
     
  17. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Hollow stays are/were quite common world-wide but never seem to have caught on in the UK for loco boilers. One advantage is that it makes it easy to detect a broken stay - no need for going into the firebox and a very subjective hammer test. This, in itself brings the problem that ignorance is no longer bliss and locos no longer happily run round with the the odd broken or cracked stay.
     
  18. keith6233

    keith6233 Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Don't forget there are far more steel boilers than any other type and Tornados meets the latest regulations and of course carries the magic CE mark .

    These are just teething problems it will settle down and will be forgotten about.
     
  19. The Saggin' Dragon

    The Saggin' Dragon Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    What reservations did you have?
     
  20. Mark_Allatt

    Mark_Allatt New Member

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    Re: 60163 Tornado broken. Again...

    Two suspected faulty stays in Tornado's boiler were identified during a routine inspection of the locomotive by fitters at Stewarts Lane depot on the morning of Saturday 26th June. These faults were not present when a similar inspection of Tornado was conducted on Friday 25th June during the locomotive's lay-over at Crewe Heritage Centre following her use on 'The Border Raider' excursion the day before.

    This new discovery follows the identification of five defective stays in late May/early June and the subsequent replacement of these five stays and seven neighbouring stays during repairs at Hither Green depot.

    The A1 Steam locomotive Trust has therefore taken the safe and prudent decision to temporarily withdraw Tornado from service to enable a comprehensive repair to be put in place. Since the earlier defects were discovered the Trust has been conducting a thorough investigation into the likely causes, which has yet to be completed. All of the Trust's customers have been advised of the situation and will be informed of Tornado's planned return to service date as soon as possible.

    Mark Allatt, chairman, The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust, commented:

    "This latest news is a blow to all of Tornado's supporters and customers and our customers' passengers. We are working as hard as we can to bring Tornado back to full health as soon as possible and back onto the main line where she belongs."
    Information on when Tornado will return to traffic will be posted on www.a1steam.com as soon as it becomes available.
     

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