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60045 Lemberg

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by neildimmer, Aug 23, 2014.

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  1. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    Morning All
    60045 Lemberg Carlisle 01:05 between Christmas & New Year early 1960's
    http://railway-photography.smugmug....sley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-hNsmBFD
    Neil
     
    neildimmer, Aug 23, 2014
    #1
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  2. dampflok

    dampflok Member

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    Great nightshot ,especially with the of the lights on in the Thompson carriage. Lemberg sounds like a german red wine .
     
    dampflok, Aug 23, 2014
    #2
  3. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Can we please have a steam/diesel top and tail for waverley route reopening? Say 60009 & Deltic 9?
     
    Matt37401, Aug 24, 2014
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  4. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Lemberg is / was the German name for what today is the Ukrainian city of Lviv.

    Lviv (at the time known as Lemburg) was part of the Austro Hungarian empire until 1918, and sought to become capital of a new independant state of Western Ukraine in 1919, and found itself immediately being at war with Poland and later the Russians 1920, before making peace in 1923 to become of Poland.

    By 1924, At the time of this A3's construction, this was now a Polish speaking city and just achieved peace, this locomotive name, in its German (rather than Polish or Russian tense) has some what political tones considering the timing..

    During WW2, Germany invaded Lviv in 1939, later the Russians in 1941. In 1945, Russia took territory from Poland and put Lviv in the USSR and deported over 150k people to Poland, and in 1991 became part of independant Ukraine consisting of a mix of Russian, Ukrainians and Poles, thus setting about the basis of the problems in Ukraine today
     
    ADB968008, Aug 24, 2014
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  5. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Wasn't it just named after a n'orse, like the rest of them?
    Whose time in the limelight was before the political events?
     
    Martin Perry, Aug 24, 2014
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  6. neildimmer

    neildimmer Resident of Nat Pres

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    Morning All
    I have added 11 new photos of Gresley A1/A3’s featuring 60035-60070
    60040 Cameronion unknown location
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-3b7cQPt
    60042 Singapore Darlington
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-FFnSchx
    60044 Melton Abbotts Ropton Sept 1953
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-txKHnXr
    60045 Lemberg at Doncaster 1960
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-q4Mdbvm
    60049) 2548 Galtee More (later renumbered to 60049)
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-Cp6dZVx
    60051 Blink Bonny at Derby 1964
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-qK3Jvpz
    60060 The Tetrarch Abbotts Ropton Sept 1953
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-Gzr7xCt
    60065 Knight of Thistle at York
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-7T2C3wF
    60065 Knight of Thistle Darlington
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-2BrQtTN
    60067) 2566 Ladas Polmadie (later renumbered to 60067)
    http://railway-photography.smugmug.com/LNERSteam/Gresley-Locomotives/Gresley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-28N7w2g
    Neil
     
    neildimmer, Aug 24, 2014
    #6
  7. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    I didn't say it wasn't named after the horse..
    but the horse was named after the place, and the loco, was named subsequent to events in the place and the horse.

    At best it was an ignorance of current news media, at worst it was politics.

    To put a current slant on it, suppose one of the TOC's embarked on a new class of "footballers" and decided to name one of them "Shakhtar Donetsk" ?

    incidentally their stadium (used in 2012 Euros) got bombed yesterday, the team.. well they moved to Lviv..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28913140
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
    ADB968008, Aug 24, 2014
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  8. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I have a hunch that it was probably the former.
     
    Martin Perry, Aug 24, 2014
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  9. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    Great horse, great locomotive, for some time regarded as the fastest of the A1s but it wasn't quite an A1. It had almost the same T.E. as the A1 but had was fitted with a 220 psi boiler and 18.25" bore cylinders. It was on the way to being an A3 but was not quite the finished article. That being said the advantageous valve size to cylinder volume ratio of 2544 could have been worth retaining.
     
    242A1, Aug 24, 2014
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  10. dampflok

    dampflok Member

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    Interesting facts about the name of the locomotive , I wondered why she had a german name .
    The red wine Lemberger comes from a vine the originally came from Lemberg which is a town in Slovenia .
     
    dampflok, Aug 24, 2014
    #10
  11. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Or just possibly, in those days before poltical correctness, no-one really cared very much.
     
    Jimc, Aug 24, 2014
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  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    TRue. Named after a racehorse pure and simple. I can't see the LNER somehow researching the name of each and every nag they named a loco after.
     
    Spamcan81, Aug 24, 2014
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  13. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    other companies did..

    during WW2 the Manchester Ship Canal removed Germanic sounding names from their locos (31 Hamburg and 32 Gothernburg lost their names), 32 Gothenburg being in Sweden still didn't prevent it being removed).
    LMS renamed the Jubilee Eire / Irish Free State
    there are other precedents.
     
    ADB968008, Aug 24, 2014
    #13
  14. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    I see that Doncaster and Pretty Polly are related.
     
    std tank, Aug 24, 2014
    #14
  15. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    http://railway-photography.smugmug....sley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-G3RvWGs = Glasgow St Enoch
    http://railway-photography.smugmug....sley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-9cHbMVw = Kings Cross
    http://railway-photography.smugmug....sley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-L3WkPWz = Newcastle ?
    http://railway-photography.smugmug....sley-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-JDg4mnT = Edinburgh St Margarets
    http://railway-photography.smugmug....ey-A1A3/A1A3-Pre-1968/60035-60070/i-mkrg9gC/A = Doncaster
     
    Fred Kerr, Aug 24, 2014
    #15
  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Why are you so hung up over the name of a loco?
     
    Spamcan81, Aug 25, 2014
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  17. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Is it forbidden ?
     
    ADB968008, Aug 25, 2014
    #17
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    No. Just can't see why you're so hung up about it.
     
    Spamcan81, Aug 25, 2014
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  19. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    If everyone's opinion had to be questioned to motive then there really wouldn't be much point in a forum like this as the debate would be lost to a discussion on rationale rather than reason.

    However as you ask, the reason I took more interest in this than any other, was my better halfs grandmother was from Lviv, saw all the wars and was deported by the Russians in 1945.
    The stories told of a 20 something female in this period are quite unforgettable.
     
    ADB968008, Aug 25, 2014
    #19
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I would imagine it was a harrowing experience but Lemberg the horse and the loco had been named long before.
     
    Spamcan81, Aug 25, 2014
    #20
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