4464 Bittern to do 90mph on ECML - 29 June & 27 July 2013

On this forum, there is a mixture of praise and condemnation of Network Rail. I applaud those who vent their feelings in such a passionate way.

My view, which is probably shared by thousands of others, is that NR is no better that Railtrack and let's face it, the latter was a disgrace and their demise was inevitable. I have a feeling that it won't be long before NR will also be replaced by something else. Reality is that NR is Railtrack under a different name. As I understand it, many of those running Railtrack are still at the helm today.

My Sunday morning groan though is that there are some here who criticise any negative postings about NR because "don't forget, they view these forums and it could effect their view of steam" . Blow that, if you feel they are to blame for certain actions, then say so. If anyone thinks that me saying "NR employees a bunch of incompetents who don't know how to run a railway and are a threat to steam on the mainline" will result in a statement that "these comments are an insult to the hard working staff at NR and because of it, we will ban steam" is crazy.

Speak your mind at all times. Don't be insulting but if your think NR is doing a good job, say so. If you think they are doing a bad job, such as the very last minute A4 high speed fire risk cancellations, then so. No one is going to following you down a dark alley in the middle of the night and wipe you out! Please please. Have no fear and speak your mind.

Nick

 

Is it any wonder LNE zone of NR are a bit twitchy over fire risk after the chaos 30777 and 70013 caused the other year?

 

Would do if Bittern actually gets south of Nottingham, At this rate Mallard will get there first... And without coal.

 

Yes quite. By no means a perfect company I don't see trains crashing as a result of poor maintenance by poorly supervised contractors and the spectre of fear returning to the travelling public. I've yet to see blanket speed bans being put in place because of the identification of hundreds of problems with track either. Hatherton Hall is upset that we've had a hot summer and believes that steam engines that are known to start lineside fires should be allowed to continue traversing the country doing exactly that. Perhaps this person should put himself in the position of a NR Controller or Route Control Manager and try and justify the huge amount of delay a serious lineside like that caused by 30777. It's always so easy to sit on the sidelines and shout.

 

Some good, sensible posts by Neil and Desiro.

(PS. I never worked for NR!)

And, fingers crossed, does the weather change expected by the end of the week signal the start of the Autumn rains?

Really hope so, meaning that Pathfinder, loco owner and all else concerned can at last get a payback for all they must have done to keep these two 90 mph runs alive.

 

Can we get back to sanity. I do not work for any sector of the railway industry other than unpaid in the Societies in my sig and never have so any pro-NR comment is not as an insider. I was in Yorkshire the last two weeks on holiday and was disappointed not to be able to see flat out mainline steam. However it was tinder dry, there were line side fires, so what were management supposed to do other than take a reasoned view that the risk wasn't acceptable.

Re Bittern specifically the whole point of the tour was flat out steam so running slowly or double-headed with a diesel wherever it was put into the rake wasn't an option.

On other tours better to run the train to give the people their days out with a cosmetic appearance of the steam loco on the train and diesel assistance. Please give these people their due credit for keeping trains running most of the time and more often than not the service trains they control the network for are also reasonably on time. It is operators who provide the faulty trains that breakdown, third parties who steal signal cables etc., etc.

 

Weather change?
http://weather.uk.msn.com/tenday.aspx?wealocations=wc:UKXX0117
Still DRY & hot.
This is the Reading area but probably much the same elsewhere.

 

If they have to cancel then fine, but before people have travelled long distances and checked into hotels ready for an early start. How did BR and its predecessors manage before 1968?

 

- Lineside vegetation kept in check, sometimes by controlled burning.
- Any fires that did occur fairly quickly put out when they were discovered (e.g. crews of other trains, station staff, PW staff, signalmen, locals etc) rather than the fire brigade being called to very minor fires which would probably burn themsolves out in a few minutes.
- If the fire brigade were called, trains would continue to run at caution past the fire while it was being dealt with rather than the line being closed.
- Less overhead electrification which needs to be turned off while water is sprayed about to put the fire out.
- Signal wires, point rodding, and wires on telegraph poles were less lkely to catch fire than plastic covered cables on the ground.
- No over the top system of delay attribution in those days.

 

I am sure there is a queue of responses to this one. To my memory we still had lineside fires in those days, especially as the stock was being rundown, however, vegetation was cut further back from the lines, it didn't grow so much as it would be felled or burnt before it could grow, and there were more track lineside staff to control fires/vegetation.
I would imagine that a passenger express, or heavy goods, would chuck out more burning embers then than any of our current mainline stock do. Do you remember the days of CLAGGGG climbing into the sky!
I was checking the times before I left to record the event on film when I found out it had been cancelled. Not a problem just a frustration. Deepest pity for those who were more committed than I.

 

With respect, that is somewhat irrelevant as it is now 2013 and infrastructure management has adapted to accommodate modern traction. You might just as well ask how a pre 1968 BR etc managed to avoid lengthy water stops !

NR are not perfect, but their priority is the safe and efficient running of the network. In my view the onus lies with Promoters / Operators / Loco Owners to take the initiative and work together with NR to agree a process for summer running so everyone's expectations are fair and reasonable. It would help if those parties were less fragmented but that's unlikely to change. Ultimately it's NR's call and everyone else has to work around it.

 

Let's give glowing praise to one NR sector who did use common sense and that Wessex. They allowed Braunton to go unassisted with a big load and quite a thrash in places (e.g Whiteball andFlax Bourton) without the hint of a lineside fire. On the other hand, there was just one incident with the Black 5 on the Royal Duchy and panic reigned with the diesel put on the front at Newton Abbot (I guess this is a different NR sector than Wessex?). I believe the diesel failed on the way back and so the Black 5 had to thrash its way back to Bristol with no further incidents reported.

In summary, I guess this highlights the dilemma for NR but it does also highlight the fact that NR do tend to over react when there is an incident like the Black 5 yesterday. And yet that incident did not cause hundreds of minutes delay to services (does anyone know just how much disruption it caused?) as suggested by pro-NR posters.

 

Well due to a number of reported posts this thread will be temporarily locked while we dredge through the thread and remove some stuff.

I would suggest a nice cup of tea or a refreshing pint and enjoy the evening sunshine until normal service is resumed.

Thanks, Neil.

 

Started smelling garlic in this thread.

To prevent overheated bearings about 20 posts got binned, replaced the corks and reopened the thread.
If your post was sensible, but disappeared, apologies it got caught in the collateral, pm me and I'll find it and put it back.

To help get us moving, I heard a suggestion of Sept 21st rumoured today... Exe Parrot got canceled, from Bristol, same day due to crewing issues... 2+2 = 5 perhaps ?

 

If true, then I suspect it will be announced sooner rather than later................................................... should make for interesting photography on the London approaches!

(I assume we're talking about the Capital Streak, the 21st being a Saturday?.........)

 

Sat 21st was the suggested date I heard for the Bristol York -Newcastle trip.
KX is affected by engineering work till 1pm Sunday (between Peterborough, Grantham and Newark)..
I only heard as rumour mind.

 

like I said, if true.....................................................................

And the fact that it appears to be flagged for the Bristol trip, actually helps me out if the Capital Streak is a week later(?)

 

Not confirmed yet, but the Tees-Tyne Streak (from Bristol) is likely to be in September, and the Capital Streak in November.