Britannia off the road at the NVR

You'd probably hear an unusual noise, even if you didn't feel it. Your senses usually pick up even slightly odd sounds, movements, smells, etc. I've come off the road three times in my life, once with all wheels and I certainly knew that; the other times it was only a single wheelset but you knew straight away something was amiss.

 

Unusual circumstances? Or does this happen regularly on your line?

 

If you have an intolerance in the track as well as the wheel, then the chances of something coming off are a lot higher.

I'd rule out a broken spring and the point blades being deliberately moved underneath. In most minor derailments like these it'll be an issue with the track and/or locomotive.

 

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Take out human error and I'd say all derailments are due to track or locomotive (or and adverse combination of the two)
Whatever the cause, I'm sure that it will be known by now and it is nothing to get excited about. Derailments usually leave plenty of clues.

 

2 Questions:
1 -What is a broken spring if its not an issue with the locomotive (although I'm not saying that this is a factor with 70000)
2 - Sometimes derailments are not the cause of a single main factor, but a combination of small ones.

I would also suggest that human error of the person on the point handle is unlikely as the last wheelset went the right way.

Stephen

 

70000 now over the pit at Wansford pending inspection.

 

Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Did they use the steam crane?

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

No. Don't shoot the messenger but the story as told to be by more than one member of the NVR operating staff is that lifting her with the NVR crane would have invalidated 70000's main line certificate and much paperwork would have been needed before she could run on the main line again.
Anyway, whatever the reason for not using the crane, she was being prepared for Monday's private charter on the NVR as inspections had shown no damage that would have prevented this.

 

I will pop in tomorrow to get the info.

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Or some wooden chocks..

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Or rerailing ramps .... the possibilities are endless. Not sure what the value is of all this speculation?

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

There's no value but it is human nature to be interested and, depending on the individual, some will be more interested than others. If someone hears that a loco has come off the road, the first question will always be 'what happened?' no matter who it is. Some may be satisfied with the simple response that it came off on some points; others might desire something a bit more detailed. I was always told to ask open questions and carry on asking till you get to the root cause, so a simple 'it came off on some points' invites the next question 'why did it come off on some points?'

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

The point I was making, was that the solution didnt need to be high tech.
Plenty of engines re-railed using pieces of wood.
A crane is a bit of an over reaction to a single derailed small wheel.

I remember a J94 derailed at a railway once.. they just piled some wood and spare fire bars around the wheel and a guy with rebar, opened the regulator and guide itself back on the track.. it then went on to run the next train uniquely in the UK this would probably be seen as wreckless today.

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Steve, totally agree, but with the proviso that we are talking those actually involved. As we aren't then we're unlikely to learn anything concrete, so personally I'll wait to get it from the horses mouth. Of course that relies on the NVR releasing their findings. Hopefully they will, as indeed I would hope other organisations would in similar circumstances, so we can all learn from such incidents (assumes RAIB not involved). I came off the road once - will recount the details later when I've time. Iain

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Spot on. Just heard the loco at work near Ferry Meadows Station so all seems well.

Steve

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

I was on the train which 70000 was attempting to run round . The staff were placing fishplates and large wooden blocks packed with ballast with the idea that the derailed wheel would be guided back onto the track as the engine moved forward . I later learned from a member of the shed staff that after 2 failed attempts they had decided to wait for advice on whether they could use the crane which was in steam at the time .
Glad to hear that Britannia is back at Wansford and fit to run !

James

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

There's an old adage that says it will go back on the way it came off, especially at points, provided that you give the wheels something to run up but there is a significant risk of doing even more damage in the process. Used to happen on the big railway where clearing the line was of more importance than the repair cost.
Jacking and packing is all very well but the wheel still has to be slewed back over the rail. If you haven't got slewing equipment, that is not the easiest of tasks. I've put plenty of vehicles back on the rails in my time and I'd much rather use a crane, if I could. Every job needs to be assessed on what is safest, easiest and quickest having regard to what equipment is available.

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Good news if correct. Lets hope she's OK and passes her FTR for the w/e VT job.

 

Re: Britannia over the Wansford pit.

Using the crane would have been a major over reaction certainly. It's also been discussed that the position of the loco would have made suitable access by the crane very difficult / impossible. You'd have had to split the tender off and even then i doubt the crane could have gotten into the right position.

It's not a five minute job to use a crane to lift something, anybody who thinks otherwise runs the risk of having a crane at a strange angle to the horizontal.