If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Betton Grange

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Broomhalla, Feb 22, 2009.

  1. 6880rules

    6880rules Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    697
    Likes Received:
    2
    Occupation:
    Motor Trade
    Location:
    Southport
    Hello David welcome to Nat Pres
    No doubt you no who I am, let me remind you, the one you said in 2010 " we need you on board " well I am still on board never jumped ship or jumped off. angry yes ! frustrated yes ! not unlike quite a few others it would seem.
    I will say no where near what i could but first take a read through the Betton Grange thread, then the Patiort and 82045 threads see if you can see any difference both are supported by public money both are charities etc etc but only two seem to have satisfied customers.
    May i also suggest you take a good long hard look at 6880 and how it is seen /percieved by potential contributors maybe a chat with people who no longer pay in to 6880 would be a good start as well.
    The forum is seen by some myself included the last voice we have, if the elected board members don't listen to the ones who elected (or watched being co opted) on to the board then Nat Pres is one way of letting off steam.
    I suppose it is written in the hope that someone on the board eventually will react to issues some very serious others maybe not so, that are effecting the progress of 6880s build.
    Right now you are the only serious reaction and so far all you want us to do is shut up and post ypur questions to 6880 which as before have either fallen on deaf ears or answers that just seem so far out of touch with reality that once again the questioner dispairs and beofre you know it is on line to Nat Pres
    As i have stated before I would be more than happy to sit down and talk Turkey and no doubt others would as well in fact anything to get this project moving again.
    Remember the mind is like a parachute......not much use when closed
     
  2. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Point I was making Bob is that certain people that seem to be very vocal in their complaints about the boiler not being de-tubed were active in the project 5 years ago, but did not do the job then ...
     
  3. mike redditch

    mike redditch New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    2
    It says it all when the directors of the project don't even know what they have said!
     
  4. David Huntbatch

    David Huntbatch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    The project will undertake a boiler (s) inspection. Clearly it's on the 'to do' list, so there's no conflict here. If you want to contact us about volunteering then we might find enough people to carry out this work sooner rather than later. Meantime we're working all this weekend and until Wednesday finishing the front end of the frames ready for wheeling. A lot of drilling and riveting.
    The Betton Grange project (the engineman's engine) is a serious new build project well worth the time and effort for any followers on Nat Pres. The members and Directors are passionate to make it happen and we seek constructive comments from any quarter and are always looking for members willing to help at sales stands and working weekends. We are no different from any other loco group in the country in this.
    The Betton Grange Society is led by career professionals with skills in Marketing, Sales, Publicity, running of Events, financial skills in quoting for contracts, Engineering and wide contacts throughout the preservation world. We have successfully organised and run such high profile events as Steel, Steam & Stars with another 'Closing the Gap' gala at Ruddington this May.
    if you read this and want to get involved, then our doors are open. This is a great project with great people behind it.
    6880 Building the 81st Grange
     
  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,105
    Likes Received:
    57,439
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I must admit, eight or ten years or so ago, when I was first coming back to being interested in railway preservation after a few years away, Betton Grange had quite a high profile as one of the first new builds, but now its profile seems to have faded. So, taking you up on your offer, here's your chance to sell it to me (and maybe others) by answering some questions:

    1) A figure of £350k to finish the project has been widely quoted. Is that to finish just the engine, or the engine and the tender?

    2) On what basis has that figure of £350k been arrived at?

    3) A finish date of 2016 has been widely quoted. Giving you the benefit of the doubt and making that the end of 2016, you are saying it will be finished in about 4 years. Given that fund raising has to run in advance of spending, that probably means 3 years to raise £350k, or about £120k per year. How much income have you raised per year up to now, and given that figure, are you confident you can raise £120k per year for the next three years?

    Tom
     
  6. David Huntbatch

    David Huntbatch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Thanks Tom,
    i'll try to answer your questions as follows.
    The figures mentioned are for the locomotive and not the tender. We plan to hire a tender from another GWR loco group when 6880 is finished. Whilst we're trialing and running in, touring various preserved lines and earning a living we will build our own tender using the frames we've got or new if necessary.
    The calculation of £350,000 is based on the quoted cost of the new cylinders, a sum for the boiler based on what we do know and what other boilers seem to cost when refurbished. The rest is for all the things we haven't got plus labour etc. We are lucky in having a good stock of parts bought along with Cogan Hall, plus from other sources. this is where a GWR loco group is at an advantage due to Swindon standardisation. You need to bear in mind that the recent adverts are an appeal and the sum mentioned has to be seen in that light. We all know that in railway projects that costs continue to rise and things always take longer than planned. But we have to appeal in such a way that the project sounds 'do-able'. With the current rate of income we would be short of the money needed by end 2016, but as I've said, this is an appeal to make it happen. We need more contributors and more events to raise the money we need.
     
  7. NDTSDN

    NDTSDN Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    2,864
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    A, A
  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,105
    Likes Received:
    57,439
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Thanks David for that comprehensive reply.

    Tom
     
  9. David Huntbatch

    David Huntbatch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    Just thought I'd add the latest news about 6880 and the 'Closing the Gap' Gala we're organising with the GCRN this May. Tickets are now available through the 6880 Website. We will be looking for volunteers to help run this gala 4-6th May 2013. Any takers?
     
  10. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    6,122
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railway Technician
    Location:
    8C / 5D / 27C / 71B
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  11. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    6,122
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railway Technician
    Location:
    8C / 5D / 27C / 71B
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  12. David Huntbatch

    David Huntbatch New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    2
    On Monday 8th April 6880 Betton Grange was wheeled and currently sits as an 0-6-0. Next will be the bogie wheel set. Meanwhile plans continue to develop for the cylinder castings. A great day for all our followers
     
  13. Thompson1706

    Thompson1706 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    2,438
    Likes Received:
    1,844
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Rhiwabon
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Great news!. Maybe the next S,S & S gala could aim to make the full cost of refurbishing one of the boilers.

    Bob.
     
  14. lil Bear

    lil Bear Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Messages:
    6,122
    Likes Received:
    1,655
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Railway Technician
    Location:
    8C / 5D / 27C / 71B
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
  15. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,369
    Likes Received:
    281
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Post office
    Location:
    South
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Is Betton Grange the new build project underway which is the most complete now?
     
  16. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,105
    Likes Received:
    57,439
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Hard to say because projects are taking different routes to completion - for example (entirely hypothetically), is a loco with a rolling chassis but no boiler more or less complete than a loco with a boiler but no wheels?

    To answer the original question, Beachy Head has a loco underframe, tender underframe, all its wheels, cylinders, most of the motion and the boiler - the biggest outstanding items are brake gear, tender body, refurbishment of the boiler, all the platework, various small fittings and putting it all together.

    Tom
     
  17. m0rris

    m0rris New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2009
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    20
    Indeed and then there's the saint which is going along well in the background!

    As for Betton it is good to see it going well and a rolling chassis is a very good milestone to reach. Good luck!
     
  18. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    16,510
    Likes Received:
    7,753
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Got to be 2999 just now I would have thought?
     
  19. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Ambiguity Alert: "The most complete"
    I'm giving a lecture to my local railway society next month under the title of "new build steam" (for Standard Gauge) and straight away I'm into ambiguity as I have excluded the Rocket and Planet locos (built mainly for museum use not heitiage railways but one could argue all day....) and the GWR Steam Railmotor (in the case of the latter the power unit is new of course but the rest of the vehicle is extant, albeit heavily restored). I have agonised over what order to put these new build steam locos in, as happily, progress on several of them is such that they leap forward on my "list" with each passing month. My list, in order of nearest to completion for today is: Tornado (of course!), NER G5, Saint, Grange, County (4-6-0) Patriot, Beachy Head, Class 3 2-6-2T, and so on. A couple that have jumped forward recently (in my view only of course) include the Churchward 47xx (which some idiot said would never be built-oh yes, that was me) and the Clan. The M&SWJR 2-6-0 "Galloping Gertie" and the Dean Goods remain at the bottom of the list and the Thompson L1 2-6-4T never ever got on the list.
    I'm not a member of the Betton Grange group sadly (82045 and 45551 are the 2 groups I decided to join) but if anyone from 6880 Society has a good photo of Betton Grange with its wheels on that they are happy to post online or pm me to use at the presentation I'd be most grateful as I'm unable to visit Llangollen in the near future.
     
  20. daveb

    daveb Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    484
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wimborne, Dorset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The one you've missed is Tyseley's Bloomer. I would think that progress-wise it's at a similar position to the Saint, but as Tyseley aren't working on it at the moment it's likely to be overtaken by several of those following.
     

Share This Page