Flying Scotsman

Good luck to Steve Davies -and thanks for all your work at the NRM

Mark

 

I have copied over the last few posts re Steve Davies and the NRM into a new thread in General Railway Chat here:-

http://railways.national-preservation.com/general-railway-chat/37626-steve-davies-quits-nrm.html

Could any posts specifically related to Steve be posted in the new thread please?

Thanks, Neil.

 

Just reading the second part of David Wilcock's interview, and his piece in Running Free. I'm particularly bemused by his statement "to tell it like it is" - particularly in light of Steam Railway's reputation (somewhat deserved) for extrapolating different meanings and over dramatizing things.

My problem with David Wilcock "telling it as it is" is that there has been so much emphasis, onus and downright aggression towards 4472 and all it stands for, placed on the shoulders of one man; one of us, actually. A railway enthusiast with a passion for railway preservation.

You reap what you sow, and I wonder if David Wilcock's articles were the tipping point for a man who was thrown in at the deep end by Steam Railway who continuously and deliberately ran the NRM down for what must be an eighteen month straight period. Steve Davies, incidentally, wrote a guest editorial for Steam Railway not so long ago, to praise Steam Railway Magazine's efforts in railway preservation.

Whatever has happened with 4472, Steve Davies was not - though he felt himself so - entirely responsible for the whole saga, and I can only repeat my frustration with David Wilcock's first article, for the second article too.

David Wilcock has spent far too much time trying to apportion blame and heap it all on Steve Davies, when he could have been asking the questions we all want to know about the locomotive's overhaul from 2005-2012.

However David Wilcock's collection of news items in Running Free has been an eye opener. No, not for the purposes he would want us to read it for - more or less a condemnation of the NRM throughout - but that further discrepancies in the locomotive prior to being withdrawn for this particular overhaul are public for the first time.

So in addition to mudhole doors being welded up, frames being out of alignment, several split air pump fittings, the tender handbrakes cut to fit electrics, oil piping problems, the cracked right hand cylinder, severe corrosion in the inner firebox, 121 boiler tubes replaced, necessary crown stay removal, dislocated superheater elements, £50,000 spent on problems with boiler and axlebox repairs (August 2004) and various other problems found between buying the locomotive (April 2004) and taking it out of service (2005), we can add, and I quote, "Jim Rees discloses that boiler washout plugs on the 'inherited' no.4472 had been fitted with domestic gas plugs". Page 88.

Now I am not an engineer; I am merely a writer. Could someone explain to me (for I cannot for the life of me understand with my limited knowledge), how such a component designed for a boiler intended to run at a much lower pressure, in domestic circumstances, be up to the job of one specifically designed for a high pressure locomotive boiler of significantly larger size, volume and pressure?

How has this never been brought to the forefront by the railway media before? This is the first time I have heard about this particular repair/modification to 4472 but surely this is one of those newsworthy items that should have been picked up on? Questions asked? Telling it as it is? At the time of it happening?

The more I read this section of Running Free, the more I know, understand and accept that there have been serious problems in terms of the management of 4472 throughout its ownership with the NRM. That is not in doubt. There have been several changes of engineer, the head of the NRM retired partway through the current overhaul, and there have been setbacks with new findings of damage every six months or so for nearly four years between 2007 and 2011.

If we were to add up the entire amount of problems that the NRM have been faced with - accepting that there were problems with their compliance measures to find/identify and fix these problems - and compare this to any other locomotive being overhauled for the mainline (bar the obvious comparison), how can anyone say that the NRM have failed in their duty to the locomotive?

The list of things broken/done badly/replaced by inferior parts/ill advised modifications and more that have cropped up in Steam Railway's list is as long as my arm and then some. It's incredible, reading back through the NRM's expenditure on 4472, that the NRM have had to do this to a locomotive fully overhauled in 1999.

I mean, Scotsman first ran on the mainline for Flying Scotsman PLC in 2000 and ran for four years before being sold. Four years running before a summer of discontent with its capabilities and reliability forced it to be withdrawn for this overhaul.

I am staggered by the sheer amount of unreported repairs (ones which the railway press have perhaps, turned a blind eye to?) that have had to be done to 4472 since it was bought for the nation in 2004.

How can it be that this locomotive was sold for £2.2 million in 2004 in full working order?

I think the lambasting of the NRM (some criticism, granted, necessary and fair) has all but whitewashed the question I am left with after reading Steam Railway this month.

How was Flying Scotsman worth £2.2 million in 2004?

Anyone?

 

IN 2004, as at any other point in 4472's existence, she was worth what people were willing to pay for her.

To railway enthusiasts, the fact that she is the last suriving A3 gives her a high value regardless of her mechanical condition. From a commercial point of view, though she is no longer the household name she once was, she still has better "name recognition" than most other British steam locos, which also helps to make her an attractive proposition. It must also be remembered that no-one in 2004 had any idea that her condition was as bad as it has subsequently turned out to be.

Let's not forget that Jeremy Hosking also bid more than £2 million for 4472, and he's no fool.

 

A very fair response sir.

 

A couple of days before 4472's first run after overhaul in 1999 I went to NYMR for the day. I brought back with me a portable headlight, that A4LS had sold for use on 4472. To spend all that time and money overhaulling the loco, only to have to chase round at the last minute for a headlight seems very strange.

 

You know, that litany of horror stories sends a shudder down my spine - combined with the information revealed on the DVD about 4472 that came with the 'RM' a couple of issues ago, quite how this has been 'spun' to be Steve Davies' responsibility beggars belief.

Mark

 

Hi
Sac Martian loved your comments on the subject really good, well, like 4472 had been fitted with domestic gas plugs just shows what the VAB pass out mmm , just watched Mr Jim Baldwin’s dvd very good I say some old faces on their which are not hear RIP. PS sorry for not having a shirt on in the film . FISH7373 81C.

 

I was simply commenting on how amazing it was Steam Railway couldn't be bothered to report it at the time. My request for information was tongue in cheek to some extent as I simply couldn't believe that practice could have happened.

(On a side note, SAC Martin written thus. I have been told I live on another planet on occasion...!)

 

At the time of the locomotive being put up for sale I don't believe anyone examined the engine as thoroughly as perhaps they ought to have done. There was an anxiety that the locomotive might have been obtained by a foreign buyer and hence lost abroad. Additionally there was the view that the A3 should be saved for the nation but no longer be the property of a private individual. It all became a little hectic and something of a circus. The engine was puchased but there must have been some suspicions with regard to the loco's condition. The cylinder problem was known about but what else? It was fairly common knowledge that RK was not happy with the transporting of the engine by road to various events probably with good reason. Also it must have been observed that the condition of the A3 was deteriorating quite quickly as the money ran out.
Was Southall well enough equiped to undertake a full overhaul? Probably not (see also 6100). So when did the engine last receive full and thorough attention? At Hunslet's before it went to the USA? When it came back, Derby did not have the time to do much. It went through the hands of Vickers at Barrow. What exactly went on here? I cannot recall anything apart from running shed jobs after this. Little wonder the NRM has been caught out. Pity Steve Davies got caught up in it at the end.
Also various parts have been removed from the A3 (3 Wakefield lubricators for example)................I wonder where these went to? The NRM doesn't appear to have them. A bit similar to the vacuum brake saga perhaps.

 

HI
242A1 you say in your thread that also various parts have been removed from the A3 ( 3 wakefield lubricatures for example)do you mean when it went to the NRM, I beleave all spare parts went to york and you say southall was not well equiped just look at the dvd southall was well equiped for overhauls. plus 6100 was not finished when going to crew. FISH7373 81C

 

Well said, although alas this seems to be the hallmark of Mr. Wilcock's "journalism". His ire is not reserved solely for the NRM.

 

Vickers fitted the spare A4 boiler in 1978. The News & Star article linked below implies the overhaul was completed in less than six months although Vickers might well have been working on the spare boiler before they received the loco in December 1977. The article says the completed boiler left for Carnforth on May 23 1978 but I think they mean the completed loco - it doesn't make sense otherwise.
News & Star | Yard helped keep famed steam loco on the rails

 

Perhaps Wilcock is in the wrong trade; as he knows so much about what wrong, perhaps he should take on the job of managing the restoration

 

I hope not otherwise this forum will go the same way as that railway in Wales

 

You lucky B8stards, i hang awake at night dreamin of being redeployed....

 

Can't help thinking that if I was Steve Davies I would be asking myself "Do I need this?"

Would not be surprised to see him move on to a more hospitable crowd

 

Probably a lot of money owed to creditors!