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Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 34007, May 13, 2008.

  1. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    You have to go back more than twenty years to see the reason for that.

    A fairly well known (in railway circles) journalist kept badgering David Smith on the phone for information about the future of Carnforth and what his plans were. Not long after it was acquired from Flying Scotsman Enterprises - remember them? Not getting anywhere he decided to pay an uninvited visit, with similar results. He seemed to think he had an absolute right to be informed what was going to happen "in the public interest", and being someone who was rather inclined to throw his weight around, this time he met his match. What he did then was to print several pages in the next issue comprehensively slagging off the Carnforth setup, and criticising David Smith personally as though he'd been promised information (which he hadn't) which had then been withheld. This was done in the manner of a tabloid newspaper, and was quite nasty. Ever since then the Carnforth organisation has elected not to discuss their affairs with journo's who's only interest is to sell their magazines.

    That's it in a nutshell. It's a great shame, but that's what happens when you have one idiot do something like that and spoil things for everyone else. It's not the only example of this kind of thing, and I've noticed in recent years other railway enthusiast publications indulging in tabloid-like journalism. Promoting their own preferences, denigrating others, and being very economical with the truth. When you know whats actually going on, and compare that with what's printed, the difference is often quite shocking.

    I've always found Carnforth people (in the very limited contact I've had) quite straightforward, and not as secretive as many make out. I don't think the staff has been gagged, they just use their common sense just like everyone else who has a sense of loyalty to their employer. After all, other railway business organisations aren't any more informative about the finer details of their operation. Actually preservation has a lot to thank Carnforth for, and I for one am thankful David Smith stuck at it, and didn't give up and go and do something less in the public eye.
     
  2. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Very interesting, although the wording in the article says "WC engineers & fitters are under instructions not to talk externally" etc etc. Long way off from the Steamtown operations where it was more public.
     
  3. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    That's a load of nonsense isn't it.

    With all the thefts that are going on, there has to some sort of security.

    As an aside, I don't know about more recently, but I remember being told at Carnforth about fifteen years ago that they'd only ever suffered two thefts that they were aware of. For some strange reason the very same person had been on site on both occasions, and was quite notorious for that kind of activity all around the country over a very long period of time. So much so that I bet a fair proportion of readers of this forum will know exactly who is being referred to.
     
  4. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    I was being sarcastic! It's an ongoing joke about the PoW style of operations. Saying that, if you look at photographic attempts of Carnforth, they are taken miles away with very large telephoto lenses. There again, don't all railway organisations suffer from thefts/vandalism etc? Including NR with cable thefts. A most unfortunate state of affairs I know.
     
  5. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    Maybe another example of loose journalism (having another poke at Carnforth) and everyone reading it will believe it (urban myth material), or maybe I need to be corrected. More likely though it's just the typical situation you have in a work environment. I think most of us have been told by our employers at some time not to discuss internal affairs with outsiders. It's a normal and reasonable expectation.
     
  6. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    Yes, well everyone can see that. But there's also a degree of lynch mob mentality which arises whenever Carnforth is mentioned, which is quite distasteful.

    That's nonsense too. How much easier is it to just wander into e.g. Crewe works, or Three Rivers etc, without passing security? Or even take photographs for that matter?

    I don't think you can compare cable thefts (by the pikey fraternity and others) with targeting of historic artifacts - loco parts, axleboxes, signalling equipment etc. These are people many of whom are associated with preservation who know what to go for to make maximum profit for themselves.

    I remember a raid on a site in Essex some years ago, where a load of castings of locomotive fittings were stolen from a container in which there were also brass nameplates. The nameplates were not taken, which tells it's own story doesn't it.
     
  7. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

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    Most significant words on this thread are those a while back by buseng: "when 45699 is finished...not too far off by all accounts..."

    I do hope this is factually correct! S & C here we come....
     
  8. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    Goes on to say COULD be ready for main line testing late July/early August. With a mainline comeback on this,

    [TABLE]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]Sat 08-Sep[/TD]
    [TD]THE LUNE RIVERS TRUST SPECIAL
    Carnforth-Scarborough [wcrc]
    TBA:Carnforth-Hellifield-York-Scarborough and return[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]


    Please note this is what is speculated in the magazine & not my opinion!
     
  9. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    More hearsay from when I visited the Bluebell last week, a chap from Lancaster said that 45699's boiler was mostly complete, and that it was generally at the re-assembly stage. What truth there was in that I've no idea, but we'll see when it happens. Hopefully 35018 will emerge from Carnforth with the unique features that locomotive had as the prototype rebuild, as has been established before on this forum.
     
  10. 34007

    34007 Part of the furniture

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    I hope not as 35018 is pretty much complete in rebuilt form and wouldn't you think that 35009 would be a better alternative in in built form?
     
  11. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    I think BP was suggesting that 35018 be kept as the unique 'first rebuilt' with the differences that that entails (not sure what these are), rather than a return to 'as built' condition.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I've only had a few dealings with David Smith and have always found him to be very helpful and friendly and always willing to chat about things. I sometimes wonder what it would have been like if his earlier project to reopen part of the Yorkshire coast line had come to fruition. I've also found no secrecy in talking to West Coast people about how things are going on at Carnforth. However, I treat it as privilege information and don't go broadcasting it to all and sundry.
     
  13. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

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    I say its a bit more thrilling when the WCRC locos return to steam unannounced although normally they are spotted in steam in Carnforth's yard before a test (I think its happened with 46115, 48151 and 34067) and can't wait to see them get started on 35018. Wonder who'll be out first 35018 or 35027?
     
  14. irwellsteam

    irwellsteam Member

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    Good question, although I hope 35028 is still around when '18 returns, so we'd have the first and last rebuild in steam together.
     
  15. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Probably could have written it better, but got it in one. Here's a recap on the differences on 35018:

    LHS:

    The small ejector pipe along the left hand side of the boiler curved around the nameplate on 35018, whereas the curve was nearer the smokebox with the rest of the class.

    RHS:

    1. The two boiler water-feed pipes into the clack valves had two 90 degree dog-legs in them that were highly visible above the running plate. However, these were straightened-out as per the rest of the class at a later date.

    2. Snifting valve was obscured by the smoke deflector, whereas a cut-out in the bottom l-h corner of the deflector accommodated the valve on the rest of the class.

    Both sides:

    1. Position of the mechanical lubricators was different to the rest of the class, although difficult to see how with 3/4 views of the locomotive.

    2. As originally outshopped, 35018 did not have handrails on the smoke deflectors. These were a later refinement fitted two months after entry into service.

    3. Sand filler pipes were shorter than on the rest of the class.

    I think that's about it!
     
  16. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    I also have always wondered what the differences were between 35018 and theother rebuilt MNs. Thank you for such a detailed summary.
     
  17. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    After all the time 18 spent rusting away at Portland with what i would assume as no chance of restoration whilst owned by Richard Heather i'm glad that it will very soon be undergoing restoration, letss hope that the work already done turns out to not need redoing and that she is returned to steam sooner rather than later, i for one cant wait to see 18 and 28 side by side at Waterloo , or passing each other at speed somewhere along the SW mainline
     
  18. Dan Hill

    Dan Hill Part of the furniture

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    Any idea if there are any images of 35018 like this.

    For Merchant fans its a great time with 35018 being prepared for its restoration and eventual main line running, work could soon start on 35009 and 35027 at Bury with the possibility of 35022 afterwards with at least the first 2 going main line as well, 35006 soon to be in steam at the GWSR, 35028 already in steam on the mainline and will be for a few more years, when the funds are raised 35005 and the possibility of 35011 being reconverted to Air Smoothed Casing (if SR is to be believed).
     
  19. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    You're forgetting 35025, which has been mentioned this week on another thread. In which connection there's obviously a big heap of parts lurking somewhere, suitable for putting on an MN. Wonder which one they will appear on.
     
  20. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    There are, and of both sides, too! However, you need to purchase Ian Allan's 'Locomotives In Detail No. 1: Bulleid 4-6-2 Merchant Navy Class' (2004) and turn to p. 66.

    In fact, looking at the sandbox filler pipes immediately behind the smoke deflectors for the leading sanders, they had longer filler pipes than the rest of the class. So the fillers beneath the nameplate were slightly shorter than normal, and the ones behind the smoke deflectors were longer than normal.
     

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