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New builds - how many will ever really work?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Maunsell man, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Why not?
     
  2. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    And for the non-FaceBookers amongst us, what is this one? A Beyer-Garrett? (I believe a model manufacturer has announced one, so that is one tick on the checklist). An LNER P2? (Can't have too many groups trying to build one of those floating round, plus it fits the LNER theme). The LMS "Fury"? (Would plug a highly significant gap of a high pressure loco, a crucially important strand in UK loco history that unaccountably didn't make it into preservation?)

    Tom
     
  3. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    An SR L1. Stems back from their mixup over LNER/SR L1s I imagine. Either that or one of them got the Hornby O Gauge Compendium for his birthday and was looking through the No. 2 Specials.

    In mitigation, this group makes quite clear 'we aren't trying to build one, just gauge interest', but I still find myself wondering at the mentality of the person/s behind all of these 'facebook newbuild-lites'. Are they trying to set a seed in the mind of enough people with enough get up and go to do more than sit in front of a computer screen? Are they endeavouring to actually initiate and operate several new-build groups at once? Are they simply trying to wind up us happy posters on National Preservation?

    I don't know. I think it's youthful exuberance that will pass to be honest with you, and here's the point that I need to admit something: I did the same thing once when I was about 15-ish. I was going through a 'Jersey Lily' phase and thought that a newbuild GCR Atlantic would be rather snazzy on the front of the Barnums, given time. So I founded a Yahoo email-group, made a few announcements in a few places online - it even got a tiny box in the corner of a Steam Railway magazine. And about 15 people joined. I realised I was in cloud cuckoo land, and the group withered to nothing fairly rapidly. Apart from spam sent by long-ignored email addresses, the group is now dead.

    So I did it, I've been there, I did the naieve teenage dreaming, and then I realised that I did not have the time, knowledge, skills or kudos to see such a thing through, so I let it go. When I was 19 I joined the SVR, not in the MPD but even in the Traffic Dept. it opens your eyes to the realities of working with steam locomotives. I'd still like to see a Jersey Lily. But I know that if ever I were to get involved in the building of one, it would be when I am older and wiser and it would be having already attracted a group of like-minded individuals, and between us all the skills to do so. And we would pursue a very cautious road before setting up a website, a facebook page, a blog.

    So having been there, I think I'm pretty well set up to say to these people: I know where you're coming from. Wouldn't it be great to have a newbuild of your very own? But it isn't a case of setting up a minor publicity stunt and waiting for the supporters to roll in. You've got to WORK at it. Really work. And you need to know what you're doing.Have you got the time for that? Get your education sorted, as that's the first step along the road, get involved at your local heritage railway (keep badgering 'em if they're being recalcitrant!) and start getting to know the ins and outs of this complicated game. When you're 25, just finished an apprenticeship at a railway works, and a passed fireman, start looking into one. Just one. Because if it takes you 20 years to manage, then you might just get another one or two in before you peg it. But you don't want to spread yourself too thinly, because you'll lose all credibility and end up with three different sets of frames, a few moulds and a lot of angry covenanters.

    Alternatively, win the Euromillions and get in touch with one of the big works. It's what I'm holding out for!
     
  4. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    I find it crazy seeing all these new-build schemes when there are regularly threads on this forum reporting that various preservation lines have insufficient, or barely enough, serviceable steam locos to maintain their regular services. If you like a certain defunct class of locomotives that much get a 5'' gauge live steam model made!
     
  5. Foxhunter

    Foxhunter Member

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    I think I have heard that argument before..... "In 1964, as steam was being phased out, David Champion remembered reading an article in a modelling magazine. It said the best way to preserve steam for the future generations was to build models." Had David heeded that advice I doubt we'd have Tornado and in ten or twenty years time the existing main line steam fleet would all be encountering the sort of problems being experienced in the current restoration of Flying Scotsman. If main line steam is to have a future beyond the next ten or twenty years we need locomotives fit for the 21st century railway.

    Foxy
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thanks Jamie.

    Interesting post by the way. I guess what we are seeing is simply the ease with which the internet allows like-minded individuals to connect with each other - that means those with a real killer idea, but also the sadly delusional, and all points between. I'm old enough that my wild ideas as a 15-year old never had a chance to get beyond my own head. Whereas now, firstly we have Tornado has living proof that it can be done (never mind the largely unseen blood sweat and tears expended behind the scenes) and an inspiration to many other schemes, hare-brained or not; and secondly we have easy means of communication that means such schemes can be floated widely at essentially zero cost. So I suspect the price we pay for the inspiration and the ready communication is having to sift through large numbers of schemes dreamt up in bedrooms and which will never get any further.

    Tom
     
  7. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If they're building an L1, can they repaint it black and number it as an LMS 2P like Hornby used to? Two locos for the price of one!
     
  8. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Interesting quote, I heard the same quote in a very different place recently, the director of Warsaw railway museum said the very same thing, and believed the PKP national collection there will someday be scrapped and replaced by models.
     
  9. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    Oh No!

    Believe me, they were very different engines. They might have looked similar at first glance, but the performance was like chalk and cheese.

    Someone (who'd already puchased another engine) did try to preserve an L1, and one was kept back and stored at Fratton. But in the end the money wasn't available in time and it was scrapped.
     
  10. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Didn't quite a sizeable contingent of the S&DJR Circle allegedly argue that buying a 7F from Woodhams would divert the group from its task of researching the S&DJR?
     
  11. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    Yes, and judging from some of what one reads, the same kind of thinking still prevails today.
     
  12. mickpop

    mickpop Resident of Nat Pres

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    The difference between then and now is that the number of locos needing to be conserved and maintained has grown since the early days of preservation, what with imports and new builds, while at the same time, by my observations, those actively involved in restoration are getting older. Will the kids of today want to put their money into steam locos they have never seen? Maybe they will prefer diesels and support the recreation of a D600 Warship. Add up the number of new build schemes. Are these all people with the relevent skills? I remember me and my mates deciding to build a space rocket when we were about ten. We collected a lot of old wire and electrical odds and ends, and saved up some pocket money, but sadly none of us had the engineering skills to achieve our aim!

    I hope I live long enough to see the Patriot run, and the Grange, the Saint, the County and the B17 but I don't think I will see them all. I think some of the other schemes will never get beyond the collecting wire and odds and end stage [I'm put off by those that build a cab first and then things come to a halt]

    I was joking about the models but it was guaranteed to get someone rising to the bait.

    http://mickpope.zenfolio.com/f63169718
     
  13. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Don't worry, I wasn't being serious. Just going with the whole "stick a pin in the Hornby catalogue" theme that most of these groups seem to be about.
     
  14. TenWheeler

    TenWheeler New Member Account Suspended

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    Ah yeah. You mean a bit like - use an 8F boiler to make a county. A bit of plastic filler and some paint, no-one will notice the difference.
     
  15. guard_jamie

    guard_jamie Part of the furniture

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    It's worth bearing in mind that you're now hitting a generation that found no interest in the modern railway, having been brought up on heritage railways. I would identify myself as such. So the 'what I remember from my youth' argument for me, born in 1989, is actually steam and semaphores!
     
  16. DJH

    DJH Member

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    Good reasons not to I would have thought. 'Knock on the head' in what was meant is sadly just berating them for being creative if a little too star gazing, as I'm sure many of us were back in the day. My advice would be along what Jamie has already mentioned ie harness the enthusiasm they have for steam and the movement and channel it into help on a restoration. As a movement there is constantly mention of the need for more volunteers and younger people to take it on and move things forward. Being creative they may well think of different ways of doing things. Granted there will be a lot to learn but it would be worth it. For a minute think instead of the facebook pages of new builds this enthusiasm was put into a preserved lines publicity department what the impact could be.

    Duncan
     
  17. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    And did it?
     
  18. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    No idea - I merely recall the story ...
     
  19. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest


    In the context of just two standard gauge locomotive projects having been brought to completion (including the railmotor bogie) so far, it is obvious why heads need to be banged together. Finance and labour are being spread just too thinly and I suspect overall progress would be far quicker if efforts were concentrated on getting projects finished before promoting new ones. Faster progress might well assist in retaining new recruits rather than the "Waiting for Godot" situation there is at present.

    P.H.
     
  20. DJH

    DJH Member

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