Question re loco nameplate fonts - Hunslets

Does anyone happen to know the font used on the Hunslet worksplates or loco nameplates? I need to know for something I'm working on.

Thanks in advance for any help given.

Regards

Andrew Charman
Editor
Narrow Gauge World

Narrow Gauge World | Atlantic Publishing

 

Maybe a call to Hunslet Steam at Statfold may provide the answer for the works plates but I thought the Quarries made the name plates

 

Related to what I said in the thread on headboards, these days we think in terms of 'Fonts' for larger signwriting, and also cast nameplates. But the use of recognised fonts for larger scale signwriting only really came in during the 60's and 70's.

Railways would have their own Fonts for liveries etc. but much of the signwriting would still be done by hand, with signwriters having their own particular 'takes' on the various styles, even if officially following a nominal font.

This thread may be informative:

http://railways.national-preservation.com/steam-traction/34671-headboard-typeface.html

Basically, for nameplates, the 'Font' is likely to have been particular to the foundry involved and the patterns it held (the exact nature of which would be down to the original Pattern Maker). Even if it was 'officially' a given font it probably differed in detail for various reasons, including scale effects and the requirements of flowing metal (see the Gill Sans and LNER nameplates issue mentioned in the thread). As shown in the thread, even nominally identical fonts can differ according to source.

Even if Hunslet provided nameplates, if ordered, I strongly suspect that many locos would have been named after purchase or had replacement plates made locally after damage, or simply had the name painted on (in which case the font would have been individual to the signwriter). If they _did_ provide plates then I would expect the shape, vertical dimensions, location etc. to be identical between engines, which I don't think is the case (I haven't checked)

Even if the letter patterns used were identical its also true that the layout, and hence kerning, would be done by hand and could result in variations in style between plates.

 

This afternoon, I asked the owner of Britomart and one of the restorers of Hugh Napier what typeface Hunslet used and they pointed at Britomart's nameplate and said "err, that one."

Blodge's signwriter may know more. I will talk to him tomorrow.

BTW, the terms 'font' and 'typeface' are not interchangeable. A font is merely a set of characters of a typeface at a particular point size and style.

 

But most people understand 'Font' today in terms of the computer usage, which is technically wrong. In any case, to be infuriatingly pedantic, standardised nameplates would have all used the same size and style. You are, of course, correct.

To illustrate my point about lack of standardisation, here are two Hunslet nameplates:

'Dinorwic' - 1882, 0-60, 4ft



'Irish Mail' - 1902, 0-4-0, 1ft 11.5 in



Superficially they are the same Typeface. But look carefully at the 'R' in both. There is a distinct difference in proportion. There is also a difference in corner radius (or plate size - there is no scale) and plate border width relative to character stroke width (which might also be due to plate size differences).

To make my point about locally manufactured plates meaning that not all Hunslets wore the same style, here is the plate of Amalthaea (1886, 0-6-0) which was renamed from Pandora in 1906:


I'm assuming that the plate was locally manufactured at the time of the name change.

However my travels online lead me to believe that there was definitely a common Hunslet style and that the locomotives were therefore delivered with plates. The question then is, was there an official Typeface/Font rather than a set of patterns created by their foundry? If the first, how close are the patterns to the official typeface, especially as there is evidence of differences between plates? If the second, what is the closest modern typeface to what was actually created?

Other questions I find interesting and have no answer to are: Were different height plates provided for different size locos, and if so were there noticeable differences between the different sized sets of patterns, which might account for the different shapes of the 'R' above? And were plates chosen from a set of standard lengths, in which case the letter spacing might vary depending on the number of letters on a plate of a given size, or were they a custom length, in which case letter spacing would be consistent?

(Images linked to from The Narrow Gauge Railway Museum Copyright acknowledged)

 

Did Hunslets actually supply 'standard' nameplates? I thought the naming of locos tended to be done by the owner or owning company and the only Hunslet plate would have been the works one. I would assume if the loco was requested with a nameplate they would probably knock something up if they didn't outsource it to some other local brass foundry or whatever, and possibly certain railway companies would have their own 'standard' nameplate design.

 

This was certainly the case in Penrhyn and Dinorwic quarries. Records of Penrhyn do state that they cast nameplates for locos in the brass casting area of the Felin Fawr foundry. I know that patterns for Dinorwic locos still exist and can be seen at the Llanberis slate museum.

 

Hi Andrew
Please - CONTACT US as we have quite a collection of Hunslet worksplate patterns with various style letters.
Do you know which plate it is you are after?
We could ,if it would be of help do you photo copy or a rubbing .

Cheers
JIM

 

Hunslet (and every other manufacturer) would supply plates if requested by the purchaser and this was quite common, especially in Victorian times. Sometimes the purchaser would give specific detail of what was required, often it was left to the builder to provide that which they considered appropriate. Early Hunslet plates generally had a serif style and the plates had square corners, as did those of the other Leeds builders, a practice that probably originated with E. B. Wilson. Later Hunslet plates were generally sans serif. with round corners. The standard order specification for Hunslet included the words 'Supplied with name......... and number.......plates.' The relevant wording being included or crossed out, as required. My own loco had the name and number painted on and the specification gives exact detail of how the purchaser required it, along with paint colour and lining detail.