New builds - how many will ever really work?

You could always slightly increase the cylinder bore and/or the boiler pressure. The class 4 was a 225 lb boiler, but the class 3 only 200.

 

Raising the boiler pressure would involve recalculation and possibly modification, not something that would be undertaken lightly, I suspect.

I wasn't thinking of the adhesion weight or tractive effort, more the ability of the small boiler to produce steam fast enough. My memory is telling me I've read that they did get short of steam on occasions.

 

Stay pitch might change slightly, but in any case building a new boiler requires qualification procedures which far outweigh the work required to make detail changes. All the calculations have to be presented whatever you do.

Strength and power are two different things. For running on preserved lines I don't think boiler capacity would be much of an issue. Steaming problems on comparatively modern engines was more to do with maintenance than basic design.

 

When the Standard Steam Locomotive Company was set up in 1995 it was intended that once 72010 was built and running they would turn attention to the other Standards which were missing.
Time has overtaken the progress of the Clan and other groups have taken up the challenge of re-building the missing examples, on behalf of SSLC I would say thank you.
77xxx is a missing link, if not the only one missing, I did hear a rumour that a project may start to remedy that. As said here, there will soon be a wealth of standard parts/patterns available.
Question for you all, once we have built all the Standards, do we repeat the popular/efficient ones??

 

No, once the full set is complete build the 8F 2-8-2.

 

Build one first then look at something else. Walking before running again...

 

And then worry about maintaining, operating and financing your first one.

 

What interests me about the current new builds are those which do not have a boiler. My understanding of 60163 is that the A1 Trust took out a large bond to pay for the construction of the boiler.

For a popular engine like 60163 it probably won't face a problem in paying off the bond - but how will smaller, less prestigous locomotives earn £300 - 400k to pay back a loan or a bond? I wonder if some new build groups are going to be faced with a huge amount of debt once the locomotive has been constructed.

 

Boiler repairs of previously restored locos can sometimes cost £200K-£300K, so boiler funding is not exclusively a new-build issue, but a few groups have successfully managed to cope with this.

David

 

That's true David but some groups will have support of a home railway to help them finance extensive boiler overhauls. At the current time I can't see any railway helping fund a new build to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds.

What I'm suggesting is that new build groups won't have the option of letting an engine on X railway for Y years to pay off a debt but instead have a commercial debt (or near enough) to maintain which might be difficult.

 

Re the Jeep. There was talk of a duplicate being built in Ireland. Is this still live? If so it would be an obvious starting point for discussion on a Fow;ler 2-6-4 tank. Also I note the Patriot pony truck has wheels of 3'2" diameter. Are these identical to those on the LNWR 'George the Fifth'.

 

Now that is something to which I'd make a substantial (financial) contribution.

 

There are many locomotive groups that do not rely on 'home railway support' for overhauls, surely? Moreover, why shouldn't a newbuild loco have the option of their loco operating on a railway to pay off a debt?

 

Sure some, but how many are requiring £300 - 400k for a new boiler or the cost of a major overhaul (for example)?

The answer to your second question is that you're supposing that a railway currently has access to £300 - 400k to help finance a new build and looking at some of our biggest railways - SVR & NYMR - I can't see that kind of money being forthcoming.

 

The lms patriot has 3'3.5'' the same as an 8f as their using two 8f wheelsets. Although they Will have to use an 8f axle box on the front bogie which Will be different from the originals.

With regards to "jeep" yes it was mentioned somewhere a while back about another being produced. Don't know if it was true or not. Or if they have drawings. But I'm sure if they were going to do one a group doing a fowler 2-6-4t would benefit from duplicate parts. That's of course as long as they share compatible components in the first place.

What else off of a fowler 2-6-4t is compatible with other locos? Drivers and front and rear trucks with staniers 2 and 3 cylinder tanks?

Gavin

 

Perhaps not, but there can be a 'quid pro quo' agreement on the use of equipment and expertise that may make savings in other areas of the project. A great saving may be made by being able to turn to a fully kitted out machine shop and knowledgeable volunteers for the manufacture of the myriad of parts that go into a loco - a saving that will help toward the cost of the boiler.

An alternative possibility - and I must stress that this is a hypothetical situation and that I do not speak for the 82045 group, which I am using as an example, in any way - they could conceivably contract the building of the boiler for their locomotive to the SVR, and pay in whole or more likely in part with a contractual agreement for x number of days provided for the SVR's use of 82045 at no charge. Whilst this would leave them short for the first overhaul, that would perhaps be countered by the interest generated in the locomotive by its operation.

I reiterate, this is total guesswork on my part as a hypothetical means of financing a newbuild. The above I provide as an example only.

 

I would say that the problem with that theory is that it still requires the SVR to provide the finance up-front for a brand new boiler which would be a challenge for the railway at the moment.

 

So are we saying most of these new builds will become rolling chassisiz but will never progress past this point because there isn't enough capital left to have a boiler constructed or will there be a long stagnant period of time where groups try to finance boiler constructed. I wonder if a boiler construction company would build boilers on a pay has they construct arrangement over a period of years?