WHR Garrets

Here are two photos of No.143 at Dinas on 1st May 2007...

 

Mixed gauge...MIXED GAUGE!!!

 

Thanks for all the photos and info, very much appreciated. Regarding the actual running of the engines now, I have read previously that they are 'not too happy' running backwards, is there any truth to this rumour?

 

No

Martin (WHR Fireman)

 

Straight to the point, I like it haha! Are they difficult to see out of? I can imagine they are....

 

Forward visibility is terrible, backwards not so bad but I suppose it depends on the design of the tanks really. Something like K1 with it's tall cab and low tanks has quite good visibility giving unparalleled views of the back of the shed.

Have you noticed all the WHR Garratts point backwards up the steep twisty bit. In theory this helps with the weight distribution and therefore adhesion. Quite important on these inferior single regulator articulated locomotives.

Tim

 

They can have pretty limited visibility, especially on a line as curvy as the Welsh Highland. The fireman often has to be the driver's eyes. In fact I think they are easier to drive backwards from a visibility point of view, with only the rear coal bunker in the way.
On another note, our recent roster emails have also confirmed that with 138 being converted this winter, the Welsh Highland will pretty much be (specials aside) a 100% coal-fired railway next year The 16s never did like oil burning much anyway.. or lets put it another way, we never knew just how well they could steam until their recent overhauls (which also sorted out a lot of worn, inefficient, valve gear) and conversion. 143 this year has been a dream to crew.

Karl

 

Speaking purely personally, that is wonderful news. I have been lucky enough to have one or two footplate trips on the Garratts and 87 has always been my favourite. I have driven and fired it and enjoyed both experiences immensely. I am hoping to renew the acquaintance in 2012. If anyone reading hasn't been yet, make the effort: this is probably the best, non - main line steam experience in this country, if you're into performance. The hill - climbing, particularly between Beddgelert and Pitt's Head is simply beautiful to witness (and even better to experience at the sharp end!), the scenery is among the best on the planet, the stock is comfortable, the Pullmans exceptionally so, and the staff are great.

Also, if you're going to trek out there, plan to stay a couple of days somewhere. I usually book into a Travelodge at Caernarfon or Port, but I've also stayed in B&Bs, because you don't want to miss the Ffestiniog. They have got it sorted. Even diehard "Broad-Gauge" men can be subverted.

I'm a Severn Valley Man. Q.E.D.

 

I must say thanks for the insight into the loco's so far, you think of a lot of questions that will mainly go unanswered as you watch videos and see the locos in real life, it is nice to have some answered. It is very much appreciated.

It's hard to imagine driving the NGR's as I only drive Irish Mail/Utrillas/Moltalaban over at the West Lancs Light Railway. It's mad to think there can be such a major difference in the railways whilst still being the same gauge.

 

Which raises another question. It's often said (though not, as far as I know, by the major railways that operated them) that Garratts have problems with adhesion as their coal and water was used up, but why should this be different to any other tank engine? Like, for example, a Fairlie? After all, apart from the double boiler the differences between a Fairlie and a Garratt (speaking generally) are largely cosmetic. You could call a Garratt a Fairlie with the trucks pushed out to the ends and a simplified boiler.

I know the NGG16's have carrying wheels but K1 doesn't. (And some Fairlies did, presumably for the same reason as Garratts - to reduce punishment on the track)

 

Regarding visibility from the cab, of course back on their home soil (or p-way I should say!), the cab seats were pivoted so as to swing outboard, the loco then being driven thro the open cab window! I believe this was primarily to allow the crew to escape the heat, but it would also improve visibility too. Of course it would result in some very nasty "grazes" on the WHR! I have some slides showing this on the Banana Express back in the mid 80's that I must scan sometime over the dull winter nights.

 

One of the biggest differences between Fairlies and Garratts is a Fairlie has independent controls (with a common reverser) and steam circuit for each power unit. This makes it a lot more controllable and easier to recover from a slip. Also the weight of the boiler is directly over the wheels, on a NGG16 it is mounted over the rear driving and carrying wheels, using the tank or bunker to add adhesive weight to the rest. Like you suggest this will lead to the inevitable problems that all tank engines suffer but it is exacerbated in a Garratt more than a Fairlie because of the weight distribution.

Yes the carrying wheels will be there mostly to reduce the axle weight.

Tim

 

I always found when driving a superheated locomotive that trying to control a loco's slipping by closing the regulator, is almost like trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted. Much easier to control using the reverser me thinks. I supose having two regulators would allow differing amounts of steam to be sent to each bogie which then 'may' help to control slipping - any comments on how they drive on the WHR???

 

Attached a couple of piccies taken from the cab. As you can see, not very good forwards (there IS a train lurking behind that tank!). Also found the coal-fired one (87) a lot hotter on the footplate than the oil-fired ones even in a north Wales summer!

 

I'd say the rear view over the bunker is better than anything you'd get on a std gauge loco with high sided tender. Looks adequate for the line speeds. Fwd view maybe more problematic, due to distance from cab, so leaning out not a great help?

 

As someone who has a passing interest in the WHR & the Garratts ( A broard gauge fireman!) What news of K1? Is she running this year? Does dshe perform better now, I understand there were a few mods made?

 

Following on from Black Jim's query, what news of NGG16 109 currently at Pete Waterman's site? I can find no updates online ....

 

I was on site this weekend and from what i can see nothing has changed.

When the garrat first arrived it was split down into its component parts and the power bogies disappeared into the workshop, one of them was worked on by Mr Watermans apprentice scheme and was got to the point of being rewheeled. This was approximately 6 months ago. Since then all work ceased and just before christmas the partially completed power bogie was sheeted over and moved outside.

Of course the apprentice scheme folded just before christmas and no futher work has taken place on 109, the boiler/cradle and power bogies are sat out side the workshop.

Im assuming no work has taken place because of the need to finish 70000/60009/46100 and all the other contract work going on. Either way i do not think you will see 109 for the forseeable future.

Obviously im not privvy to the offical reasons why its not being worked on, I can only comment on what i see with my own 2 eyes.

 

what of K1?