Lost LNWR Crane

I agree with your sentiment but is the CVR actually a registered museum? Certainly to the best of my knowledge the line I'm involved with (GCR) isn't, the only registered museum part is the small artifacts museum. I can well imagine that many other railways are in a similar situation.

Unfortunately with 'heritage' artifacts unless and until there is some sort of legal protection for them (as exists in France, for example), this sort of thing will continue to happen. And even if that happens, you can't really legislate for owners who don't really know (or don't care about) what they've got or don't have the means (financial or otherwise) to fix them. Even listed buildings "catch fire" and get knocked down.

Phil

 

I am not sure if the CVR is or was a registered museum, but an email I received towards the end of last year (at a time when I was enquiring to the NRM about the location and status of this very crane) contained the statement "When Carnforth closed as a visitor centre the crane was transferred to the Churnet Valley Railway, a registered museum and where a number of loans had been placed."

This suggests that, regardless of its present status, it was such in 1997/8.

Being registered or unregistered as a museum does nothing to diminish the obligations and duty of care towards an artefact of national significance.

Incidentally, I like the suggestion that the disposal of this (and other vehicles) from the CVR may have been motived by a desire to reduce crime in the area. Applying this theory, should we encourage people to get rid of (for example) their cars to reduce car crime, or do without a TV to discourage burglaries? An interesting approach but one which I cannot help but feel is flawed.

 

I understand that the Churnet Valley Railway was accredited as a Registered Museum when the NRM transferred crane RS1020/30 to them. Whether or not it has retained that accreditation, the CVR remains by its very nature a museum and one would expect its disposal procedures to follow at least broadly those required of a formally registered museum.

If the CVR were willing to play a significant role in the retrieval of RS1020/30, this would greatly assist in reversing its currently blemished reputation and in warding off any distrust in respect of future 'in trust' placement of historically-valuable artefacts. The Breakdown Crane Association, though having no funds to offer, would be more than pleased to support the CVR to this end in every way within its means.

 

Oops! Submission of my post #23 overlapped with #22 from Roger (I'm a slow typist). However I'm pleased that we are in agreement!

 

According the the MLA, the concept of a "registered museum" no longer exists, the registration scheme having been superseded by an accreditation scheme some time ago. Many former "registered museums" have not become "accredited museums".

We do not know (or at least I do not know) whether the crane was gifted to the Churnet Valley Railway (1992) plc or to the North Staffordshire Railway Co. (1978) Ltd. The former is the trading/operating company, and the latter the supporting charity. In some ways the latter seems more likely. Anyone know for sure?

The NSRC has a museum and archive, however I cannot see any indication from the website that it is accredited by the MLA.

 

If the hypothetical person's cars were rotten hulks, and vandals smashed them up, then proceeded to the next door neighbour's vehicles and proceeded to trash them when they would not normally have been "attracted" to them, then yes, I would encourage said person to either secure or dispose of them. I don't really have an answer to the TV theory so you've got me there!

 

Hi Guys

I know there is nothing better that a rant sometimes but what is happening right now to the crane has anyone set up a fund for it or has anyone got somewhere for it to go?

 

I wonder would the NRM be entitled to any redress if CVR was in breach of the above agreement?

 

Quite - rather than finger pointing, its money where your mouth is time.

If someone is doing so, then rather than take this as criticism, take it as encouragement.

 

Current situation is that we have negotiated a stay of execution for the time being, courtesy of Messrs Reid and Watson (to whom we all owe thanks).

There will be an article in the next Heritage Railway magazine about the crane's plight, which if nothing else will be a very effective form of advertising.

The crane is at present available for immediate resale but the price is likely to be in the region of £20k.

Any dealings between the NRM and the CVR are a matter for them; realistically I doubt there is any redress available.

I feel it is extremely unlikely that there will be any public funding available (ie the NRM won't be able to buy it back, although this is a matter for the NRM).

Unless public pressure can be brought upon the CVR (which according to its website has just launched a very success share issue and is apparently flush with cash) to buy it back and restart the disposal process properly (which would be ideal but I feel is unlikely to happen), then we need a person or organisation to come up with the money to buy it and transport it, and somewhere safe to store it.

Someone out there must be in a position to do this, so I suggest that everyone starts looking and lobbying.

What a shame the Railway Heritage Committee was abolished - just when we could do with it!

 

Are there any recent pictures of this ?
(On the front page, there's 1 broken link and 1 picture of a 4 wheel rolling frame).

 

Not particularly recent, but attached are images from 2006 and 2008 (The 2008 one is the one with the GUV coupled to it).

 

I quite agree but I would also reiterate my earlier point that, unless I am very much mistaken, there is no legal basis in the UK for an artifact to be designated as being of national or historical significance. In France, locomotives and other railway vehicles can be designated as "national monuments" and this brings a degree of legal protection and places certain obligations on their owners. In my view, 'someone' should be lobbying for the facility to similarly protect things in the UK.

Heritage railways are funny organisations, as they grow they become more commercial and new people come on board whilst others move on; sooner or later "the management" start saying things like "what is all this unsightly junk" and nobody can tell them, or quite remember where it came from, or whose it is. So items are deemed to be 'abandoned' and 'useless' and things like this happen. It shouldn't but, sadly, I'm certain this won't be the last time.

Of course, I might be entirely wrong; it could be that the CVR management knew exactly what they were doing. I hope not.

Phil

 

Chris,

Thanks for posting those; at least it was surprisingly complete in 2008, more so than I was expecting.

I hope that we will have a photo of the crane in happier times on the BDCA gallery soon, and will post a link when we do so (just seeking permission etc from the copyright owner).

Roger

 

Phil,

I couldn't agree more! Sadly you are spot on with every point here!

Roger

 

The photo mentioned by Roger, and provided courtesy of the always-helpful John Woolley, can be seen at http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.php/Cowans-Sheldon/MP21/RS1020_1979_04_Carnforth

 

Photos taken in early 2010 of the crane and its runner can be seen at:
http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6926
http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=4584

They look terribly uncared for, and are in probably a bit worse condition now, but it wouldn't take a miracle to restore them if they can be saved from the gas-axe.

It was a great shame that the Churnet Valley Railway turned the ex-Willesden/Derby/Toton 75-ton capacity ADRC96706 (RS1092/75) into scrap metal in June 2010 but at least there remain some other representatives of the type in preservation. RS1020/30 is unique.

 

Any more news??

 

Is this the crane where the patriot 45551 project got it's buffers from?

 

No - see link here: http://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/lmsbuffers.html

An LMS diesel crane thought to have been built in 1947, scrapped at GCR(N). The buffers were originally off a loco.

Edit: Looking at VCT database, appears to be Taylor & Hubbard 6-wheel diesel crane, DRT 81353, built 1951. Scrapped GCR(N) Jan 2011.