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6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010/2011/2012

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by belle1, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Let's get this straight. Southall worked on Royal Scot for 4 years and were unable to guarantee that the loco would be finished by the HLF's 1st April 2009 deadline. Conesquently, 6100 was moved to Crewe at the beginning of February 2009. They worked all kinds of hours to get the loco fit to run by mid-March (6 weeks). It then went straight to the WSR gala, where it was obvious all was not well. 6100 then went to SSS2 at Llangollen and returned to Crewe. Upon examination various promblems were discovered and LNWR started rectifying them and are still trying to sort it out.
    Stop passing the buck fish7373.
     
  2. M5.

    M5. New Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    This might seem like a bit of an odd question:


    What is the current status of Royal Scot???

    We all know its at Crewe, but are there any recent reports/updates on it?

    Benny
     
  3. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    first of all lets not blame fish7373, unless of course he was project manager, but 4 years to carry out an overhaul on a complete loco and not to finish it says to me that there was something wrong, normally it would be cash flow,but in this case they had how much availible?, so something doesnt stack up Vab only check that an engine meets the criteria, not how bodged the work was , ie mud holes being welded up etc unfortunatly the same 2 names keep on cropping up, on 4472 and 6100 both engines seemed to suck up vast ammounts of money and end up wrecks whilst in their care .
    We all know that 6100's new owner isnt short of a few bucks, but at the same time, who is advising him, so it could well be that to qoute bongo, pockets are still being lined its very sad that now after so much Bongo has proved to be totally correct in what he said, but in fairness to fish7373 i understand that some of the work was done by contractors and not by the people at southall
     
  4. fish7373

    fish7373 Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Std ank not passing the buck, some people keep blaming Southall, are you say that crew chucked the loco back in six weeks, and did they find any faults with loco before going to the WSR, and they did put a lot of men on loco to finish it. FISH7373 SOUTHALL 81C FITTER
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    In the real world, the question of where the money went is probably more important than how good or bad a job was done.
     
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    AFAIK, Crewe's remit was to put the loco back together in a sufficiently safe condition for it to haul a train and so comply with the HLF deadline, not to rectify any and every fault before doing so.
     
  7. daveb

    daveb Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Considering it was sat on a low loader on the M5 with a respectable fire blazing away under the front end of the loco, I don't think it was a real surprise that "all was not well". What percentage of the problems were caused by the fire and how much prior to it we'll probably never know.
     
  8. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    A burnt vacuum pipe and blistered paint. Not much at all was caused by that fire and I sincerely doubt the reported problems with "worn valve gear" reported last year were as a consequence of that!
     
  9. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Wasn't it reported to be using 3000 gallons of water on a round trip at Llangollen due to the poor set up of the valves?
     
  10. sche

    sche New Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    I am no expert, but having seen the time and effort taken to line up all the axleboxes and cross slides, and it looking like a black art to get it right, I can understand why errors may be made. I am only saying this because it seems that the problems with 6100 70000 and other engines seem to point at misalignment causing piston, valve and big end damage. But like I say I am no expert, have only seen the painstaking work done at Loughborough by those that have years of experience.
     
  11. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Not on the round trip that I did on the footplate...
     
  12. efiste2

    efiste2 New Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    the minor "Running in" problems with 70000 cannot be compared to the ones with 6100.....The only problem 70000 has at the moment is that it needs the some re-white metaling of some of the rod bearings (as im told), 6100 needs a complete re-allignment and re-working of its running gear
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Efiste

    thanks for this

    am i right in thinking that the bottom end in terms of all the alignments , axles being centred , motion set up are potentially out ? Do the frames have datum points on them to assist or is it likely that over 70 odd years these can no longer be found
     
  14. Foxhunter

    Foxhunter Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    The GWR introduced Zeiss optical alignment for setting up frames and achieved a very high degree of accuracy - some idea of this can be found in Kenneth Cook's thoughts:

    http://www.steamindex.com/people/cook.htm

    Didcot has optically aligned a number of frame sets, including those of No. 2999 I believe. Maybe someone from the GWS can enlighten us?

    Foxy
     
  15. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    There are datum pins positioned in the frames either side of the axlebox guides. These are on the nominal axle centreline, but, as you say, whether the actual "pop" marks are still there is another matter.
     
  16. efiste2

    efiste2 New Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    As far as my limited knowledge goes, I understand that at the very least all the motion needs completely setting up again as it is well out of allignment, and Im not 100% sure but i recall being told that measurements on items such as the horn guides are/were way out of tolerance........this is what I have been told and I may not be 100% accurate so please dont take this as a criticism of the Loco's original restorers.....nb I do not wish to get drawn into a post "battle" as I have upmost repesct for ANYONE who is involved in the preservation of such locomotives.
     
  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Taking the above post as intended, I'm afraid it still paints a bleak picture of sorts for Royal Scot. To that extent, it almost sounds as if a second overhaul is required from the off - worn valve gear, measurement on horn guides out of tolerance, anything else...?

    Overall, I'm not expecting to see Royal Scot until 2012 at the earliest. That will have been three years since she left Southall for Crewe, to go to the WSR. In that time, Scots Guardsman has been a stellar performer on the mainline: yes, it's had its own problems a few times, but nevertheless it has performed and performed regularly in that time.
     
  18. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Come on Simon, you've made your points on this ages ago. There's no need to keep on dragging this engine through the dirt. Everyone is well aware, by now, of the problems with it. Give it a rest please.
     
  19. spindizzy

    spindizzy Member

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    Post Removed

    I am sorry for any offence that I have caused
     
  20. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Re: 6100 Royal Scot..Progress 2010.

    For the sake of good grace, I'll retire for now.

    Was that really necessary...? :violin:
     

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