The Christmas Tynesider 18th December

I was looking at booking this trip as it is advertised by RTC as definitely being steam hauled both ways, must admit to being a bit surprised by this

http://www.railwaytouring.co.uk/index.php/the-christmas-tynesider---181210.html

I just checked to see how Sir Nigel is progressing and the good news is that she has passed her boiler test. However they are saying that she is booked to run only one way on that trip.

http://www.sirnigelgresley.co.uk/frame.html

After all the talk about diesels assisting recently and it being false advertising, surely this is really a bad bit form from RTC?

 

If you look at the top of the page for that tour you'll find that the details for it were added on 30/3/10, a good 7 months ago. One thing RTC

don't seem good at is updating their webpages unfortunately.

Dave B

 

I question if it was ever intended to run steam both ways? This tour hasn't done so before and it makes great efforts to explain that it is steam BOTH ways. I'll give them a ring tomorrow to find out.

 

RTC site states very clearly that this is steam hauled both ways. Iit really doesn't matter that it was last updated in March as it is this ad and their brochure on which customers who have bought their tickets will have relied upon... m'lud

 

If you look on the SNGLPT website it clearly says:

Saturday 18th December
THE CHRISTMAS TYNESIDER
London Kings Cross-Newcastle and return
60007: Kings Cross-Newcastle only

60007 will return to the NYMR from Newcastle after the tour, as last year.

 

As with any product you intend to purchase always read the Terms & Conditions.
We all should know by now that advertised locos and routes are a 'movable feast' dictated by availability that can change as late as the day before a tour.

 

Most of us know this but some are just not prepared to accept it. dp266 why not try suing RTC over false or misleading advertising, moaning on here will do no good at all.

 

I have referred their website and brochure to the ASA. Nothing in their T&Cs - try reading...

And I am not the only one on here that believes in honour - goods advertised must match those purchased or are all you apologists happy to take substandard products (any product) for premium money?

 

http://www.railwaytouring.co.uk/index.php/terms-and-conditions.html

This is the relevant paragraph......Every effort will be made to ensure that the locomotive, rolling stock, route and timings which are hired in from third parties, will be run as advertised, but the organisers reserve the right to alter these at any time and shall not incur any liability to any person who has bought, or contacted to buy a ticket (boarding pass) or tickets, as a result of any such changes.

 

That seems fairly clear to me dp266. RTC are like any other tour promoters in business these days, they need to make sure they have covered every eventuality. That one sentence does that without offering any ambiguity.
As far as reporting to the ASA..............

 

Well we'll see. For a steam hauled service the locomotive can only be interpreted as another steam locomotive.

I am constantly surprised of the number of people who defend the indefensible. I ask you again, what product would you accept as an inferior alternative when you have paid premium price?

 

Salty - that is utter nonsense and anyone with an understanding of the 1967 Misprepresentation and 1894 Sale of Goods Acts knows it.

The advertiser is marketing and selling a specific product, portrayed and described in detail, yet the provider of the motive power for the day is saying in public that they are not being contrcted to provide what is being sold - but a mere 50% of it. Someone is telling an untruth, and waivers do NOT cover that. Waivers cover contingencies, not negligence.

Selling something that was never going to be provided is not force majeure, on the day considerations, failure of FTR exam etc, which such a contingency clause is meant to cover (see yesterday's Bittern run our of Waterloo) - but - taking the A4 society's statement as correct - an an outright untruth puffing up the product to create sales when there is no intention to contract in, or to provide, the specification for the day currently being marketed and sold. Waivers do not and cannot cover that.

Promoters must correct errors and changes such as this, as and when they occur in the planning process, to reflect their true intentions, and capacity, to actually deliver the product that they are selling to their clients for large quantities of pounds sterling - or take the cosnequences. Its just good legal business practice and if it isn't followed, then someone, probably from the Joe Public end of the market with no enthusiast sympathies or leanings, will have good grounds for a valid complaint to Trading Standards. Money is too hard earned to see it being spent on something you didn't want to buy, and consumer law is there to see that it isn't

I suppose another mod will get an ear bashing for this - but - Dear Mr Promoter - if I am wrong in what I say above - scan in and show the forum, in writing, a solicitor or Trading Standards Authority who agrees with you and not me.

 

Apart from what spindizzy has said in post #3 there is no proof that the company are intentionally misleading the public.
Nowhere does it say that the tour will hauled in both directions by the same steam loco merely that it is steam hauled in both directions.

 

Quote from RTC website "Of course we will be steam hauled back to King’s Cross..." Not so much a matter of which steam loco the fact it is steam.

 

im sure one of the comics said bittern may feature in this tour but would take that with a pinch of salt.

 

It is in Steam Railway No.380 page 95 but comments on southbound run on November 27th. It states Nigel saying Bittern may work the tour northbound at least as far as York due to it being required up north, which I would think means the trip on December 3rd from Newcastle to Lincoln.

I seem to recall that the problems identified with misleading info in the tour blurb were the same as last year’s tour. I’m sure it said what Dp266 stated above.

 

hmmmm, I'd not considered it being another locomotive, all will become clear tomorrow, I hope

 

The time to complain about an advertised service not being provided is AFTER the operator fails to come up with the goods - surely?

 

I have had another look at the web site today and it does imply that SNG is doing both legs of the tour.


Of course we will be steam hauled back to King’s Cross, setting down at our outward calling points. We will also collect passengers who left the train at Durham and York. Sir Nigel’s arrival back at King’s Cross will conclude what promises to be a memorable day behind classic traction over a classic route.


I phoned RTC and a very helpful women explained that the Southbound Tour Was SNG Newcastle- London and the return was KX-York with Bittern then diesel traction back to Newcastle. However the tour in question proved to be more difficult as she wasn't aware what was actually going to happen. She is going to phone me tomorrow after to speaking to Nigel Dobbing.