60163 Real or Replica?

Wonderful ](*,) And off we go again. There are a number of members on this forum who would do well to try and cultivate for themselves....................A SENSE OF HUMOUR. [smilie=to funny.gif]

 

As they would sing from the terraces, "Are you Stepney in disguise?" :-k

 

Given I have Victor on my side for once - I guess the answer must be: no. 8-[ 8-[

 

How can it be a replica when it has got completely different boiler technology, ie welded instead of riveted.[/quote:2kmharz3]
I never said it was an authentic replica!

 

I like that! =D>

I've counted this as a new build, simply because it doesn't represent a loco that actually existed before, only the type. I view a replica as a loco that actually existed at one time, Rocket etc.

Steve

 

If it is built to the original design (with the proviso of incorporating later technical advances that could have been applied to the 1948 - 1950 batch) then it is a LNER/BR Peppercorn A1.

Think of it in aircraft terms taking the Spitfire as an example. Although the 'original' was produced by Vickers-Supermarine at Eastleigh, does it mean that all the others produced to this design elsewhere (Castle Bromwich, Birmingham, for example) were not Spitfires? Of course not, they are all Spitfires.

Another example is the Ford Transcontinental lorry originally assembled in the Ford works at Amsterdam. The final batch were assembled at the Foden works at Sandbach, Cheshire. Were they Fodens? Certainly not, they were still Fords.

Thus, it is the original design that matters, not where or when it or they were built.

The use of the word 'Replica' merely confuses the issue.

 

Keeping to the aviation analogy, the Shuttleworth Collection had a Sopwith Triplane built some 70+ years after the last one rolled off the production line. Sir Tom Sopwith, then in his 90s, was asked if he considered it a replica. He replied that he considered it not a replica but a late production model. I think the same logic can be applied to 60163.

 

yes shes real alright and probably built with a lot more love and enthusiasm than the originals

 

I dont think she is a replica, because (As stated before) it has a new number and identity all of its own. Improvements have been made to the design, but overall she is still the 'next' A1.

 

Surely to be a replica it has to masqerade as something else (EG the replica Rocket masqerading as the 19th Century original Rocket), 60163 does not pretend to be one of the original A1's and therefore is the last of the batch.

Granted it's not technically indentical, but neither are many so called replica's anyway, 60163 is effectively a "Modified A1" in the same way a 69XX is a modified 49XX.

 

Last in the batch? What if someone decided to 'throw a spanner (alright a very expensive spanner) in the works and build ANOTHER A1? Would it then be the last but one built A1? To be in a batch surely it would have had to be ordered as the originals were ordered, it wasn't, it was built after so it is the first of a new batch not the last of the last batch?

 

71000 is a modified 71000 and much better for it.

 

It's still the same engine, although you could argue that it has a 9F tender and therefore is not a Britannia? Perhaps there should be a class created for 'cross' classes if were going to be pedantic.

 

Do you know the history of 71000 in BR days? Are you aware of the corrections and modifications done by the owning group that make it a superb loco when it is out on the mainline. Incidentally, the tender is a one off, being the only Std loco tender fitted with a coal pusher.

 

Personally I think Tornado is a new build Reproduction.
(Reproduction implies close or exact imitation of and existing thing)

Its not a continuation of the original batch nor a replica of an original.

Going back to the Spitfire example, they are producing new airworthy Spitfires now, these aren't a continuation of the originals.

 

"A late production model". I like it, although I'd question the word 'model'. Sounds like it is '00' gauge.

 

Unless I have misinterpreted your post, I would like to point out that 71000 was never a Britannia in the first place.

 

Tornado was not built by the original company or its successor, nor under the original or subsequent orders, nor for the original purpose. It is in no sense therefore a 'production' locomotive. Though very accurate in its construction, it does not represent an original example and is therefore not a replica.

It is a one-off, specially constructed, modern representation of an A1. And what a machine it is!