Trespassers

If there is a ban that is clearly not be taking notice of, do photo permits GCR style with a HV thats says it clearly so you can easily identify the legit people. Give them a breifing 1hr before the gala kicks off or something. Sell it for £20 or something, and make some money from it. Its something a few lines need to learn, I was at a railway and photographers were actually asking for this to be done!

With the rude attitude before the event from some, and guilty unless proven innocent regime now, you're hardly going to win yourself any friends. If you can get money from being polite & forceful then so be it.

 

You have a very good point my friend and can see both sides of this the same as yourself.

I suppose as a working volunteer on the Mid-Hants, I am also an Ambassador for the Railway so may I suugest you get in touch in Tim Beere the marketing Manager on the Railway, his E-Mail address is further back on this thread.

Having met him twice now I think you will find that he is open to suggestions but above all he will LISTON to what you have to say and act on it if your idea is better than his.

I also think that things are much better than they used to be , however like all of us we still have a fair way to go. Nobody is perfect except of course my Wife, a very modest woman who says that if she had any faults she would admit them straight away.

Best regards
Chris

 

Yes agreed, it seems the powers that be are using a sledge hammer to crack a peanut, albeit not helped by the fact there are some idiots who stand dangerously too close to the track with no high-viz and that they are 2 Public Right of Way Crossings on the lineside and no-one appears to even police the lineside on gala days anyway. My local railway, Bluebell, offer a 1 year lineside pass costing around £20 I think when I renewed it back in February. Before you get your pass you are given an information sheet giving strict instructions on rules and where you can/can't go in the lineside plus H&S rules. Also you have to answer two verbal questions from the issuer which you have to get correct before you get your pass. Now let's times £20 by shall we say 200 photters for a year and the Bluebell have made a nice little profit and us photters have put money into the kitty. This is the way forward for me.

 

^ What he said.

If you were to use what has been mentioned about the GCR of the lineside pass holders being issued with special HVs which can be used to identify who is legit to be lineside and who is freeloading then it saves a lot of bother. The training doesn't have to be verse for verse copy of War & Peace.

The MHR could get some decent lineside shots from these legit pass holders which can be used as a marketing ploy to make them look good, and the cycle of money coming in continues.

 

From another perspective, having seen the photos on the Mid-Hants website, perhaps all preserved lines that actually do issue lineside passes could encourage the passholders to photograph trespassers and send the photographs to the railway for them to publish. I hold a photographic lineside pass for several railways but there always seems to be someone who gets lineside who shouldn't be there.
The GCR is rather good with checks during galas as well as the distinctive vests. The only GCR problem, in my eyes, are the bods that wander off the platform at Loughborough and under the bridge for a photograph.


Paul

 

Rather than going down the road of confrontation and 'telling on you to the teacher' mentality, perhaps circulating a few photos of smashed up bodies resulting from collisions (road or rail) might encourage the offenders to be more sensible. Getting trespassers taken to court would only encourage the jobsworths and spoilsports to say how dangerous preserved railways are. Keeping a sense of proportion is vital.

John

 

A clown in the circus is funny, a clown on the railway ends up dead

 

MHR TRESPASS

A couple of points to consider:

1/ "David" states that there are two Rights of Way crossing the line, and has implied in previous threads that the farm crossing between Medstead and Four Marks station and Ropley station (i.e. opposite the A31 dual carriageway) is part of a Public Footpath.

There has never been a Public Right Of Way over this crossing; it is available solely for the use of the farmer who owns the fields either side of the line. Anyone taking photographs from this position is encroaching on the farmer's property, and, if they are trackside of the barrier, on MHR property. There is NO Public Footpath at this location.

2/ As a MHR Volunteer who was involved with issuing Trackside Photographic Permits some years ago I can say that in order to obtain a permit, the applicant had to:

a/ receive a verbal safety briefing (which included requirement for hi-viz and acknowledgement signals).
b/ study and accept a map showing permissible areas where photography was permitted, and "no-go areas" with regard to farmers' livestock and crop considerations.
c/ Sign to accept the conditions as laid down.

This procedure worked well for a while; however,some years ago, when certain individuals took it upon themselves to enter an area which was definitely "out of bounds" (i.e the cutting outside Alresford station) and were in grave danger of being maimed or killed, all permits were withdrawn. And quite rightly so...

3/ Times have changed; Safety Cases have to be drawn-up and approved in order for any railway to operate at all, and there is no way in which "casual encroachment" trackside (with or without hi-viz attire) can be approved or condoned.

Phil H.

 

So train the clowns then and they won't end up dead.

Someone lineside at GCR with a pass & hi-viz is doing the same thing as someone at Mid Hants, yet they are trespassing. Simple solution is to ensure anyone going lineside is given some basic training beforehand, pays for the privilege of that AND being lineside for the photos, and above all can be seen by footplate crews well beforehand in a position of safety.

Using the "it's not safe" saying is a complete nonsense. It's perfectly safe - provided the correct measures are taken.

 

Because while probably not ideal for you guys, it's better to have them in high viz and told basic safety arrangments when applying for a pass, then trepassing in normal clothes that "merge" into the lineside vegetation disguising them for a drivers view, only realise they are in bad position when it's too late.

It's the MHR's perogative not to do lineside passes if they so wish but the "if we can't do it without proper training, then why should you" attitude will do little to stop the determined trespassers in the meantime, don't get me wrong, im not condoning trepassing at all, just believe allowing linsiding would see something like a 90% drop in it, surely that can't be bad ?.

 

In light of recent events, perhaps railways should think about taking a 1940's approach?



'Officially' giving someone a hi-vi doesn't stop them being a numpty, it just means they're harder to pick out from the rest.

If you're going to start doing that, you really need to properly vet them beforehand, which is when things start to become a pain. If I was a driver, the idea that there could be people out there who'd just turned up and exchanged a tenner, for a hi-vi, 'try not to stand in front of the trains mate', and a pat on the back, would scare the s--t out of me.

 

I was at Banklands near Cogload Jnc waiting for Tornado on saturday with about 10 others,I was first there so chose my spot.One chap turned up and after a chat said he "usually" climbs over the gate by the bridge we were on and goes down to a lineside hut for his photo.I said,in a polite way, that that was wrong and foolhardy.I said this a few times when he kept saying about climbing the gate.Eventually I think through my keeping on it was not the thing to do he stood alongside me and got just as good shot WITHOUT trespassing.I suspect,as has happened alot with Tornado,bigger crowds were out therefore probably more trespass.At least I stopped one chap doing it!!!

Video up soon at http://www.fireboxchaser.co.uk/fireboxc ... icture.htm

 

But you know how much trouble you get if you so much as consider shooting anyone at preserved railways these days!

 

As ever when a thread of this sort crops up I read with amazement that people can get so worked up about it. I agree that people shouldn't trespass, but I'm at a loss to understand what harm it does. I agree that it could do harm, but AFAIK there hasn't yet been such an accident. Also there are so many places on the MHR, particularly since they did a lot of tree felling, where photters can go and not trespass either on the railway or on the local farmers land. So why trespass and why get so worked up about it?

Personally I have several lineside passes and I'm contemplating getting another for the KWVR. Now if the railways that I subscribe to permit me to go lineside by crossing their palms with silver are happy with that, what is the problem at the MHR? I'm content that the MHR was disturbed by the behaviour of some linesiders in the past, but I wonder, why is it just the MHR that has this problem? The other railways don't seem to have an issue here, nor does there seem to be poor behaviour at other railway's diesel galas (not I should say that I attend diesel galas).

Why, I wonder, is there a problem at the MHR? Is it that the railway is targetted by nutters or is there something else going on?

Sorry if this offends, but as I say, I really am at a loss to understand the problem, cause or affect, and would welcome enlightenment.

Regards

 

If you look on this website http://www3.hants.gov.uk/locating-row/r ... -maps.html. Then follow the maps for Rights of Way instructions you can see that the Public Right of Way Crossing is marked with a purple line between Ropley and Alresford, so the powers that be can't really do much about lineside photting on this location. However there is not a purple line where the farm crossing is between Medstead and Ropley. So best keep to the right side of the farm gate in the field and with the use of a step ladder you can still get good lineside photos without actually being on the lineside. I must say though I did think this was a Public Right of Way Crossing because when I've been photting there I've not just seen other photters crossing here but also public walkers/ramblers using this crossing. So apologies on this location.

 

A possible solution could be to charge for permits and the money going towards cctv on the worst parts of the line ,hide the equipment to keep the railways heritage image but make it clear they are there.
Also make a clear phone number so any law abiding spotter can report a trespass and a member of staff go to the area to ban, fine or something that will prevent it happening again.

 

Rest assured, it is far worse when HV isn't worn! As drivers, firemen or secondmen, we don't need to differentiate between trespassers and staff. We just need to be able to see people who are on or near the line.

I've been involved in a couple of trespassing incidents, some scarily so. One chap was missed by a loco by no more than a couple of feet as he crossed in front of the train. I've seen a family - two adults and two young children - scramble up a bank and extremely close to the line. As we went past, the noise etc shocked them and at least one fell down the steep bank with a road below. Twice we've drifted down the line, trespassers without HV in the 4ft and they wouldn't acknowledge whistles, nor would they move clear. They were in a cutting and the only safe place to be was to lie against the bank.

Anyway, with regards the suggestion of lineside passes, there are a few places on the line which are popular and could be used for photographers without being on or near the line. Wardens could be used in those areas as well. That said, I don't know whether there is public access to those spots - and if there isn't, whilst not trespassing on the railway, trespassing elsewhere.

On the diesel gala, a couple of drivers were worried when people were too close to the line on the footpath crossing. After blowing the horn a few times and slowing to a crawl, they got the message.

 

We have a endless struggle stopping people cutting accross the causeway over the reservoir at the Midland Railway Centre. Some people do it on purpose, others just don't realise, apologise and turn back. The worst people for it are the water baliffs, instead of using their nice path they've put in, they cut accorss walking in the cess even when trains are coming towards them. Also with alot of people around our area growing up with the developing site they still think it is ok to walk their pets up our trackbed. Its a bit daunting trying to get through to a pensioners that they are tresspassing and could be prosectuted for doing so. In the last month or so we had a bloke continually walking accross the res and up the platform ramp and up the drive, we have told him before that it was not a public right of way and the fishermans path was actually quicker than trespassing through us. He just blanked us and didn't speak, he did this over 5 times until somebody used a more attention grabbing approach of calling him an ignorant B*****d. That certainly got his attention and we haven't seen him since.

As for lineside passes, we find they are just too much trouble so we don't issue them. There are plenty of crossings along the line and our country parks near enough the whole length of the line, giving ample opportunities for photographs

 

These guys amaze me-to them it's like stealing birds eggs,they collect their trophies (photos) and spend hours gloating over the prize possessions like schoolchildren.The thrill is going somewhere where others haven't been.Namely,sliding along in the thicket for the best advantage point.

It's a game they play,really convincing themselves that the picture they are about to take are of national importance,and they must capture at all costs,thinking they might be working for MI5,they need the best angle so 'M' can screen on the HQ computer.

Pictures taken at railway station are no good,it must be working on the line,that is the ultimate prize,so he can be awarded a mention in dispatches:For Bravery.

A psychiatrist could explain this method more.