SVR General Discussion

It’s hard to know what some of those roles are, and without the job description, discussion about whether their value is moot.

Rather than focusing on individual titles, and by implication individuals, the question here is surely the wider one about how reliant the railway is on paid staff, and whether that dependency is prudent.


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The cynic inside me suggests that the Board did not like the findings and having something to hide. Whether that is the case or note, they lost the trust of shareholders last year. In times of need such as now they require people to provide financial support and social capital to ensure that railway survives. The loss of trust has significantly reduced scope for any support. "Hoisted by their own petard", comes to mind.

 

Not sure why this wouldn’t be the type of person a railway would need for a Pullman dining experience.

https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/job-profiles/head-chef

The NYMR isn’t competing with the SVR or Bluebell for its catering staff, it’s competing with pubs in Pickering or restaurants in Robin Hood’s Bay. If you’re recruiting, job titles help set expectations for pay, levels of skill and experience, filtering out tons of applications from unsuitable people. I expect the role of Executive Chef at the NYMR isn’t an equivalent for Spencer Metger at the Ritz, it’s the person who works out the menu within a budget, manages the kitchen and service, and ensures people aren’t poisoned.

Simon

 

Simon, I do work in hospitality, there are several establishments I work with that don’t have an executive chef despite food being what they do.

 

Probably what we would refer to as the Catering Manager but Executive Chef sounds posh (and probably commands a higher salary.)

 

Does the SVR need paid staff to run their pubs ? I recall the bar at Bridgnorth being run by a friend on a voluntary basis years ago, if they are no longer profitable maybe they should close ?

 

How many years ago?
The Pubs have always been something to keep things ticking over at the SVR, I couldn’t quote you on the takings but working for a certain brewery in Brierley Hill it was always a big delivery for us in the week.
I really don’t think you appreciate how much they contribute to revenue.

 

I suppose close to 50 years, thought they produced revenue so the paid staff in that area are not a drain on resource as some suggest others are, the comparisons with Llangollen above see rather far fetched given the significant annual boost the Santa and Lights events provide, the SVR has been engaged in serious long term projects, viaduct, station overhaul, loco shed, which inevitably have caused pressures but the notion that SVR is not facing a sound future is extremely pessimistic.

 

Yes they do. I refuse to let volunteers work a bar as there's knowledge requirements, safety and licensing objectives. It's more complex than just pulling a pint. And its bloody hard work on a busy shift and there's things I've seen I could never ask someone volunteering to deal with.

 

The first bit might have some truth - but only for the first couple of weeks. The effect wears off far quicker than you might like.

 

Seconded.

 

Re big locos being a bigger attraction.

I'm going on observation from attendances, eg thelast year's Spring Gala with an A4 and an S15 seemed to much better attended than the (to me) far more interesting and authentic Autumn Gala with its goods trains and smaller locos.

Maybe there was another reason, but it's not likely to be the time of year as the themes have traditionally been the other way around with bigger engines and better attendances in Autumn.

More money has been attracted to big new build locos than smaller projects like 82045 and the NER tank. Personally I'd prefer to see more NRM locos put back into use as we had in the earlier days of preservation, but that seems no longer to be where the money goes.

The general public also seem to be attracted by big celebrity engines. Accepting Scotsman as a special case, other main line locos such as Tornado also attract bigger crowds than would more authentic branch line events.

 

The general public are attracted by a name, hence naming the Fort William locos in recent years. A number doesn't mean much to anyone off this forum! And sorry, but an A4 will always be far more impressive than a Std 4, I still remember my first encounter with Sir Nigel Gresley at an open day on 1989 aged 5 - I was both petrified and in awe at the same time! And I know it isn't authentic for a GWR Branchlines..but that isn't what sells tickets. Just look at Flying Scotsman!

However, locomotive policy for the railway will be dictated by which groups can raise sufficient funds, not which locos the railway specifically wants - unless they are willing to sponsor a fast track overhaul for a specific engine.
Also, groups that wish to see their engines in traffic sooner may wish to overhaul their locos off site rather than waiting for a Bridgnorth slot, but still hire back to the SVR - hence the availability of Manor power into the 2030's for the railway, no bad thing in my view!*

In essence, loco type and availability is as much down to individual owners than railway preference. And as noted above, any change to this would take time and a lot of money to implement, probably above any potential saving.
A wide variety of engines to me seems the best idea, markets and need can change over a 10 year ticket too and there is always the hire circuit if there isn't a current requirement and owners will still need to earn a hire fee.

*separate topic, but is a Manor quite possibly the ideal loco for the SVR? Not too big, but not too small. Can economically handle a 4/5 coach low season load, but also handle 7/8 - perhaps +diners too at a push. Looks great and even has a name for Joe Public - discuss! (and overhaul 7819 now!).

 

Some interesting comments being made on here.

In response to 80104 I had no replies to my EMails to the GM.
As to radical action well as I previously mentioned. Asset disposals to reduce debt. That's pretty radical.
To be specific. AFAIK the company owns 10 Mk1 runners. That being 1 RBR, 1 RMB, 3 FOs, 2 TSOs, 2 CKs
and 1 BSK. Using the Llangollen disposals as a yardstick they could fetch up to 50k each. Then there is the
Black 5. Its possible the whole lot could realise 500k to 700k and would reduce debt levels by the end of this
year to c 500/600k. Far more manageable. It should at least be investigated. It would still leave sufficient Mk1s
to run two six coach sets and be less of a burden/cost to maintain.

As to a reduction in paid employees. I do indeed understand the need for paid professionals in certain roles.
The pubs for instance need a manager but many of the bar staff are part time/casual and paid accordingly.
Then we come to catering. Apart from on train dining in pre covid days, which was pretty good, the rest of the
offering is pretty ordinary bordering on awful. Relatively expensive meals at Kidderminster for example served
on paper plates with plastic cutlery. The railway employs an executive chef and catering manager for this?
If you take a stroll across to Kidderminster museum you can see how it is done. Bread roll and soup, cheese on
toast for example. All reasonable priced, served by volunteers from a tiny kitchen. Its my normal port of call.
If I want a meal I walk down to the Ship at Highley. Another example of the catering professionals on the railway.
Inform the ladies who ran "The Arley Hilton" cabin that their volunteer services are no longer required as it is
to be taken inhouse and run by paid staff. Half the time it is closed because they cannot staff it. The customers
notice the loss of this popular facility. To reduce costs, forget meal service. Concentrate on simple fare. Hot pasties,
sausage rolls, soup, confectionary etc. Far less kitchen staff needed.

Now how about some positivity. How do we get passenger numbers and income up. Well the first thing that is
needed is to get all the volunteers on board. They need to be "Loved" They need to be valued, listened to and above
all enjoy what they do and have fun. In my view the proposed timetable even off peak is too thin. So what to do.
The general public do not like diesels. So why not try to introduce a Kidderminster to Highley steam shuttle which
at the moment could be 7714 with four or five coaches. Or what needs to be done to get a 3 car DMU into service
which I believe was quite popular. How long will 813 be out of service? Has the owner of 1450 been approached to
see if he will bring the loco back to the Valley with his auto coaches? The point being that these smaller trains could
help to fill out the timetable to provide a more attractive day out.

Has the railway considered more themed events?? What about a goods train weekend. Use 7714 with half a dozen
wagons and run it between Arley & Hampton Loade to get people actually on the railway rather than in the fields
at Eardington and by Bewdley tunnel. Put on some shunting displays at Highley. Have a couple of afternoon run pasts
alongside the Engine house for photographs from the gallery. Pose the loco by the water column at Highley for photos
taking water etc.

Then there is the magnificent collection of carriages particularly the fantastic vintage Great Western vehicles. We really
do not tell the story of these museum pieces and just use them in mixed sets on an as and when basis. Why not form
a six coach set of the oldest vehicles. Sell it as a pre paid curated experience. Run from Kidderminster to Highley,
loop the train while the passengers visit the Engine house for an included morning coffee and maybe a muffin. Then
onwards to Bridgnorth for a further break before returning to Kidder. £39 for that? Worth a try surely on a quiet off
peak weekend.

These are initiatives that I am sure that volunteers would be more than capable of organising.
Thats enough from me so its over and out.

 

45212 and 44871 aren't named?

 

I don't think selling off carriages would be a good move. However, maybe some - possibly a few of the GWR, carriages could be loaned out to smaller railways who seem to need more capacity these days.
Ian Riley could be approached to see if he would like to take on 45110 for when 45212 is withdrawn?

It is truly shocking if the two ladies at Arley were told they were no longer required, Arley refreshment kiosk was superb and why would you (HS) want to get rid of willing volunteers to replace with paid staff?
The overall food offering the SVR seems to have got worse over the years. Maybe they should put it out to tender for catering companies to run instead? Or approach local businesses to operate. Surely the pubs at KR & BH should have one manager?

1450 is undergoing overhaul. Not sure if its returning or what. Assuming 178 & 238 are in the Carriage Shed.

 

This feels like the sort of discussion that would have been held at BRB HQ in the period after Beeching and before Parker. Lots of focus on cost, very little on income.

The focus on the cost of everything, rather than the value it can bring, is no basis for growth or recovery.


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Some interesting ideas there, but please tell me how an ECS working (your goods train idea) will make money?
I will agree though that getting those that volunteer back on side needs to be done and it needs to be done ASAP.

 

I think there’s a difference between running a bar day in, day out, and for special events. This volunteer, who is familiar with the licensing objectives and chairs the license committee for a community building, has yet to see someone paid for running the bar. However, we do not sell from the cask so do not have the specific demands that go with cellaring, keeping lines clean, etc.

And profit?


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You don’t know much about bar management do you? For ourselves it’s bad enough having 2 sites half a mile away, having one manager to oversee 2 sites 16 miles away isn’t going to be a winner, your going to need someone who knows those little quirks and foilbles of keeping licensed premises going, really doesn’t look good if you have a problem at one location and your manager has to get in the car and have a 45 minute drive to come and change a gas bottle, all while you have to placate customers who just want a beer.