The 'Ghost' A3 Salmon Trout

Hi all
Now boiler numbers are on brdatabase I wonder if anyone knows which one is now on 4472? Just very interested which locos the boiler ran on. As I understand it, this is the last bone fide A3 boiler. And does 4372s original still survive, or was that the A4 sold to Bitterns benefactor?

 

This subject came up a while back on the Flying Scotsman thread which I suggest you check for more detail.

From memory as a précis :

Alan Peglar bought 60103 including some spares taken from 60041 including a swap of A3 boilers. He also purchased an A4 Boiler from 60019 which 60103 ran with in preservation during the time sent overseas. This A4 boiler was subsequently sold to LSL at Crewe and 60103 has the A3 Boiler that came from 60041 in 1965 I believe.

 

Thanks for clarifying
So boiler 27024 was fitted to many A3s,
SCEPTRE PRETTY POLLY THE TETRACH PRINCE OF WALES SINGAPORE LEMBERG AND SALMON TROUT! Helps with a second A3 model as it gives a connection to the past for me. I guess with Salmpn Trouts cylinder block that's a third!!!

 

Perhaps a boiler thread is of interest.
There's the GNR Atlantic on the LBSC copy.
61264 ran o Springbok.
Blue Peters ran on 2x A1s including Kestrel!
Am aware some of the S&D 7f ran on 4P
The Q7 boiler came off a B16
The 4F was on a 2P once
Possibly the J17 on a Claud.
Aware about all GWR boilers been the same, but are there any other lost classes living on in a boiler?
Other possibles include a J39 on the D49? An N8 on J21, J6 on a N2
And the River on the Southern Mogul.
Bet there's loads when you start looking.

 

The boiler currently on the Wainwright H No. 263 class previously ran on a Stirling R1 (Stirling R class 0-6-0T as reboilered by Wainwright). It had survived as a stationary steam plant at Ashford works. That pattern of boiler was used on a large number of Stirling and Kirtley reboilerings.

The boiler currently on Birch Grove is of the pattern used by Marsh of the I1 4-4-2T, though I'd have to check whether that specific boiler was ever carried on any other class; quite likely though I'd suspect.

The GWR Dukedog boiler was obviously previously on a Dean "Duke" class No. 3282.

Tom

 

No, it did not. Blue Peter's current boiler is a multi-valve regulator fitted diagram 118 boiler.

No Peppercorn A1 was ever fitted with the multi-valve regulator fitted diagram 118 boilers. They all had the standard 118 diagram boiler from new.

Some Peppercorn A1s were fitted with the earlier Thompson boilers (diagram 117), and some Peppercorn A2s were also fitted with this boiler type. This is what you are thinking of. They had round topped domes in the main, but some were fitted with elongated streamlined casings to hide the round dome and make it look standard within Class A1. All of these boilers had the standard LNER regulator setup.

Blue Peter's current boiler can only have been swapped between other similarly fitted locomotives, all within the Peppercorn A2 class.

RCTS 2A and Yeadon's Register for the respective classes goes into this at length.

Its original boiler (one of the standard diagram 118 types) when it was a single chimney locomotive may have been swapped onto Peppercorn A1s. But its current boiler could not have been.

 

Here’s what I know with regards to Scotsman’s boilers over the years:
January 1963-December 1977
A3 Boiler 27058 (May have been scrapped)
January 1978-December 2005
A4 Boiler 27971 (Now with LSL for 4464)
January 2016-present
A3 Boiler 27020 (Originally off 60041)
Hope that helps.

 

I get confused with Urie/Maunsell boilers, but 755 (ex-The Red Knight) is one of the 3 we own. The others, 451 and 799 are post-grouping builds to create a float of spare boilers.
Wasn't the term for such a float 'the economic stock'? Or am I away the fairies - again!
Pat

 

That's interesting Simon as the database for boiler 29871 (118 type) as residing on 60532 since 26/7/1962 shows usage on A1s and A2s ?? Data errors perhaps or maybe I'm missing something more obvious?

New - A1 60128 Feb 1952, A1 60142 Feb 1953, A1 60130 July 1958, A2 60535 Sept 1960 and A2 60532 July 1962.

 

Given that FS is 100 years old this year, who wants to speculate the % of metal on the current 60103 that was part of the original loco outshopped in 1923? (Trigger's broom)

 

Well here's a bit - unless of course its a part number, which I doubt. Anyone care to suggest where it fits on the loco?


Peter

 

RT suggests “right trailing”. Is it an axleboxes cover to prevent muck getting into the oil reservoir for the axle box lubrication?

Tom

 

Not sure what the "database" is but this is the info given in Yeadon also.

 

Trigger's broom used to be my grandfather's hammer (2 new heads and 5 new shafts) until it was hijacked for Only Fools and Horses. That's how it was usually described and it goes back a long way before that - to ancient Greece.

https://latest.dcp-online.co.uk/2021/09/14/triggers-broom-or-the-ship-of-theseus-paradox/

 

Right is right but trailing isn't. Nothing to do with axleboxes or lubrication Tom

Peter

 

It can only be an error. The RCTS 2A volume doesn't mention this, and it's pretty easy to spot a multi-valve regulator fitted boiler on a Peppercorn A2.

These 118 boilers are not a straight swap with locomotives intended for a 118 diagram boiler. The only way that would have happened was if - in what would be a seriously odd series of events - an MLS fitted 118 boiler was removed, and then completely disassembled only for all of the specific fittings, including but not limited to the different steam distributor in the dome, the boiler cladding, the different length elements and more removed and then fitted into what is basically the barrel of a 118 boiler.

I need to go and look at Yeadon's Register myself to check this but something here doesn't feel right and I know, having looked into these boiler diagrams at length that the suggestion the MLS fitted locomotives simply had standard 118 boilers swapped around isn't true, and it's also true that the Peppercorn A1s were never fitted with MLS, so something somewhere has got lost in translation.

 

I first heard the idea as applying to George Washington's ax(e).

 

I've moved this to the picture quiz thread - hope this is ok.

Peter

 

This has actually been driving me mad all night, so today I went through my photographic archive to find some examples of the engine cards for the Peppercorn A2s.

As I suspected, Blue Peter is one of the ones I do have (when I came to do the Thompson research initially, a lot of the cards listed in the NRM had disappeared over the years. Luckily I knew someone who had copied many of them in the late 90s and was able to get copies of most of the missing ones).

So, here's the first bit. With my apologies to D6332found,

This statement is entirely correct and I am flabbergasted. I have cross referenced it with the A1 cards for those locomotives and these confirm what's been on Blue Peter.

My understanding of how the LNER and then BR Eastern Region worked, where boilers are concerned, seems like it was missing a step somewhere.

So why is this such a surprise to me?

Well, when the Thompson A2/2s were new, they had three boiler types between 6 locomotives and this was their own pool of boilers. They later changed to having straight up diagram 118 boilers swapped in, and their unique ones would end up being scrapped. Note: until they made a decision to swap the 118 type in, they kept their boilers.

The W1 had a unique boiler, this was never changed for a standard 118 boiler.

The A3s only received A4 boilers (diagram 107) late in the day, and even then only pressed to 220lb not 250lb.

All of the Pacifics in the groups A2/3 and A1 had the potential to be fitted with a 117 (round dome Thompson boiler) or the 118, which as we know is the standard Peppercorn boiler. The Peppercorn A2s could have either, but the accepted knowledge (or so I thought - guess it was just me!) was that the MLS fitted engines, whose boilers had some differences to the standard 118 boilers, wouldn't get swapped around.

This has actually ended up explaining to some extent why the MLS engines seemed to take longer in works than their single chimney brothers and 60539 Bronzino (double chimney, standard regulator setup).

It appears the entire assembly of an MLS fitted boiler would be disassembled, reconditioned, and then fitted onto a 118 boiler (new or secondhand) to go onto the MLS fitted locomotive.

But hang on. If that's the case...why didn't we see MLS fitted A1s? Why were these A2s so specifically kept with this regulator type? It is probably due to their very different smokebox arrangements as a result of the MLS. But if that's the case, why have the boilers in the standard pool at all, and not have a spare MLS fitted boiler and swap them around the five locomotives?

All very fascinating stuff when you get down to it! But at least a long standing mystery to me seems to have been solved.

 

Misses the most modern iteration of it: the Sugababes.