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Locomotive Performance and Tractive Effort Discussion

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by MellishR, Nov 26, 2022.

  1. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    Did I say that? The photo is from Swindon! It would seem at least that the LNER had a few more things to learn from Churchward about standardisation!
     
  2. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    I read somewhere that Swindon regarded the smokebox as another ring of the barrel. God knows why, but that might explain it.
     
  3. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    And yet, here is one at Doncaster:

    upload_2022-12-5_14-3-36.png

    Source: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-t...ce23aefb6e5060565d40ab3aceb7d838&searchtype=0
     
  4. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    Yes, and as you have indicated, the odds are that the smokebox would have had to be removed anyway to fit on another locomotive with a different arrangement. Standardisation has so many advantages!
     
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  5. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Here’s one for @LMS2968 - Derby, 1926

    7DB884F7-34E4-434E-ACCD-BA782763CB20.jpeg

    Source: https://www.fineartstorehouse.com/h...opical-press-agency/boiler-shop-18361765.html

    The original discussion was about blast pipes; and even if you remove boiler and smokebox together, the blast pipe stays behind.

    I seem to recall there is various discussion in Holcroft in which poor steaming was investigated and the cause coming down to a misalignment of blast pipe and chimney, which could happen if the boiler is removed and then replaced an inch or two out.

    Tom
     
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  6. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    A whole Inch ? or two ? gulp.
     
  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Possibly less, I’m away from the reference. But I recall it came up several times in Holcroft in relation to locos that steamed poorly, especially if one loco from a class was worse than the others.

    Tom
     
  8. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Which raises a point: the smokebox is bolted rigidly to the saddle and the boiler fitted to the rear of the smokebox while the firebox end is free to slide longitudinally, so if the smokebox is returned to the same engine, it all has to line up, irrespective of what boiler is fitted.
     
  9. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Thanks Tom, suppose with the fit being slightly out the wrong way on all the possible interfaces: boiler to support, boiler to smokebox, smokebox to chimney, Blastpipe to cylinder block (esp if not true/ vertical), cylinder block to chassis. then an inch is possible...
     
  10. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    That is probably the reason why loco overhauls took a lot longer at Swindon compared with other loco works.
     
  11. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    Why? Because they didn't remove the smokebox, unless it was necessary? That statement doesn't make much sense. Of course it could have taken longer for other reasons. How many miles did a GWR loco run before overhaul, compared to other companies?
     
  12. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Crewe, Derby etc would have had an overhauled spare boiler to use, Swindon would have to overhaul the boiler and re-use it. If you look at overhaul dates on loco record cards, this is quite obvious. At Crewe it took longer to repaint the loco than to overhaul it.
     
  13. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    You are implying that the same boiler would have to go back on the same locomotive? With standardisation, a boiler could go back on any member of the same class, or even a different class. So according to you, Swindon didn't have any spare boilers? I'm not sure you know what you're talking about! Even the 47xx had one spare boiler (which required careful planning).
     
  14. Robin

    Robin Well-Known Member Friend

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    As an example, 4150's overhaul record at Swindon shows it had 5 different boilers during its working life. The current boiler, 5895, began life on a different 5101 class but was also used on three other 6100 class locos.
    4150 Record card.jpg

    Boiler 5895 history.jpg
     
  15. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    I guess it's also important to consider that the fit of the smokebox to the saddle should be as good as possible to avoid any air leaks that could reduce the smokebox vacuum.
     
  16. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    Did the differences of the four types relate to the draughting, or were they just differences in the way they were fitted to the locomotive?
     
  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Draughting, size of blastpipe nozzles and yes, some slight differences in fitting (bearing in mind you have some classes with seriously less space in which to fit the equipment than others). All notionally the same thing, all in reality slightly differing variations.
     
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  18. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    Until fairly recently I always thought that the 61xx boilers were different because of the higher pressure - nickel steel I read somewhere. But it appears that they were the same as those fitted to the 41s and 51's, which does beg the question why these didn't operate at 225psig. Horses for courses, I suppose.
     
  19. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

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    If there is any documentation relating to how the various dimensions of the components of the Kylchap affect the draughting, there would be a lot of interest from enthusiasts. Porta produced a detailled paper explaining how to design a Lempor, but there is precious little information available relating to the Kylchap.
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    Probably why there is still the occasional Lempor, not Kyllchap , retrofit or new build.
     

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