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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    I wonder why you mischievously pose such a question? AFAIK, the shelter at Caffyns Halt was similar to that which continues at Snapper Halt so, presumably, the intent would be to create a replica. I certainly wouldn't have strong negative feelings for that as an idea. I was quick to contribute a slice or wedge or whatever it was initially called, to the Bratton Fleming station purchase, Mark, were you? However, I'd have to wait and see about Caffyns Halt. I might not be around by then...

    However, I don't care to see the brutalist concrete rubbish at Parracombe posing as some sort of shrine to Exmouth Junction's excrescence in a Parracombe rebuild. The Parracombe shelter might perhaps better be located in an L&BR museum, perhaps at Blackmoor, as some posters here seem to find its destruction somehow shocking. OK, if it has to remain there in situ, make it some sort of secondary platform feature (even with a plaque attached to it) but build a more substantial structure, perhaps along the lines of Crediton station's down platform waiting room, where passengers could properly shelter from the Exmoor weather. Parracombe is the only settlement of any size along the whole route between Barnstaple and Lynton and deserves a significant shelter. Is that better?

    Nevertheless, I take umbrage, Paul 35B, at comparing the destruction of Parracombe shelter with that of St. Pancras station (see post no. 6229), however tangential.
    Surely you are ' 'aving a larf!', as the comparison is truly risible.
     
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  2. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Thanks for this Tom: it is all very interesting and something that should be considered by the L&BR Trust as an important and moderately urgent matter.
    As Rail West has mentioned L&BR has 'no formal policy on styles at stations' (paraphrased) (See post no. 6236) so it would be a good idea to consider what the Bluebell Railway have devised with a view to modifying and adopting such a policy at its own stations, as indeed Colin lynbarn also suggests (post no. 6251). This would help to avoid any future potential conflict between different groups.
    Chelfham group have already placed the station into an SR mould and Snapper Halt seems to be in a similar mould, albeit with an L&BR running-in board (nice!). Woody Bay is obviously a Southern station too. I don't see any of this as an issue but others might, and it could become one if any station style policy becomes too restrictive. This is where the whole definition clarity issue becomes problematic. Nevertheless it will be easier to set some ground rules now rather than in future. Howard 30854 has suggested that where modern requirements intrude any changes should be 'sympathetic': 'Some concession to harsh reality is almost inevitably bound to creep in,' he reasonably states (post no. 6244). Perhaps a first draft of such a station style policy should take a broad brush approach but definitely outlining how modern requirement issues can be tackled.

    L&BR is in the fortunate position that it will eventually (money and luck permitting) have new-build stations at Lynton, Caffyns Halt (if this were to be re-opened), Blackmoor and Wistlandpound, putting Pilton to one side for the present. These could be designed and styled to any of: L&BR (Aside: does anyone know of the original colour scheme of stations in 1897?), L&SWR, SR or L&BR (in a modern style). How would any of this be decided? Perhaps by a ballot of L&BR Trust Members? What do others think?
     
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  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    No offence was intended, but I will give no apology. The comparison between Parracombe and St Pancras differs dramatically in scale, but the two are of the same nature.

    Exmouth Junction’s output is part of L&B history, and this is a surviving structure of the pre-closure railway. That makes the shelter of historical significance, regardless of its aesthetic appeal. The confusion of taste and importance did for so many buildings 50-60 years ago, and is what nearly took St Pancras.

    Historical significance is an objective measure, and preservation needs to take it seriously rather than just take the bits that individuals like. Just as, near me, the National Trust have gone beyond their normal stately home focus and preserved, very well and with excellent interpretation, the old workhouse at Southwell - something that is far from “nice”. Once gone, they’re gone forever.

    That is not to dismiss the possible need for better accommodation at Parracombe, and the need to do it well - though I question whether cribbing a design from a very different railway in a completely different part of the county is the right way to do that, especially at what was only ever a halt.


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  4. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    The waiting shelter at Parracombe is an integral part of the L&B history and as preservationists should we even be talking about destroying this? However to think that the revived railway could survive with just this is a sure recipe for customer dissatisfaction. After a journey of say 30 minutes with children it will require a minimum of toilets, somewhere to shelter from the rain and a chance to relieve customers of money in exchange for snacks. Once there is a through station that may change.
     
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  5. meeee

    meeee Member

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    Woody Bay to Parracombe is hardly the Trans Siberian Express. I'm sure most families could manage a round trip without needing the loo. It's not even as long as the Bala lake railway which only has toilets, cafe etc at one end. You could if it turns out to be a problem provide something temporary, but I don't think huge investment in duplicate facilities so close to your other ones is really worth it.

    Tim
     
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  6. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    St. Pancras station is a Grade 1 listed building (since November 1967) and thus of national significance whereas Parracombe shelter is only significant in the minds of several handfuls of railway aficionados. I could not in my wildest imagination see Sir John Betjeman eulogising Parracombe shelter. The 'nature' of this difference is both qualitative and quantitative.

    Parracombe shelter is a historical railway artefact of minor significance although for some railway fans it might be seen as more important than that. However I cannot see how that can be objectively measured, it is not like mass or temperature or any SI unit of measure. But I am open to enlightenment.

    Parracombe was only a halt and its history has been covered recently on this thread. The point is surely that plans exist to make it more than just that in the future. Accordingly it will need better facilities.
     
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  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I would agree in principle.

    However, as I pointed out previously, a lot of the objections to the Sec 73 applications hinged around the lack of such facilities for the perceived 'hordes of tourists' expected to de-train at PE to watch the engine running-round etc. My personal view is that such fears are mis-guided and based on a false comparison with elsewhere, but in the event that the objectors were to be proved to be correct then it might help the railway to improve its relations with local residents if indeed such facilities were provided eventually.
     
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  8. Penrhynfan

    Penrhynfan New Member

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    Yes, the Bala Lake Railway only has extensive facilities at the delightful Llanuwchllyn Station but that is set to change very soon with the new Bala Station.
    As to a round trip of an hour plus, I suspect that many over 70-year-olds may have a different view to Meeee about the comfortable time period between "visits". At Llanuwchllyn station, when a train arrives, many passengers tend to rush in one of 3 directions, the cafe, the toilets or to see the lovely Quarry Hunslet locomotive at the front of their train.
     
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  9. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Yes. IIRC on the same day that David Cameron announced the appeal. I just made the dig about Caffyns to get a rise out of you;)
     
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  10. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Is Parracombe shelter a listed building? If not, any of the previous landowners could've demolished it at any time as still happens to many surviving historic buildings. Perhaps non-listing, if that is the case, gives some weight to Biermeister's argument (e.g. if it isn't significant enough to be listed etc. etc.) although if it was up to me I'd keep it since it is truely remarkable that such a thing has survived for so long. A wooden shelter of similar size would be long gone. I bet the Southern when they built it thought it looked functional, modern and smart and, if it's restorable, I can still see it that way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  11. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    Whether the shelter is attractive or not is not relevant IMHO. What seems to be relevant to me is that it is one of the structures that has survived. For that reason alone it should be kept because it provides a link to the past that is part of the USP. The L and B having opted for re-creation ( as opposed to the WHR which is very wonderful, but not a re-creation ) every opportunity to link with original items from the line must be taken.
     
  12. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot_20221119-140326_1.png
    "Brutalist"?
    Really? (Photo: Leslie Catchpole)
     
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I agree that St Pancras is of greater significance, but am not convinced about Betjemen. But the point about aesthetic judgment remains - both have been discussed in terms of individuals’ personal taste rather than being grounded in the significance of the structure.

    The shelter at Parracombe may only be of local significance, but that local significance is precisely linked to the restoration of the L&B - it is a rare surviving part of that railway’s history which, should your suggestion be acted upon, would be removed.

    I accept that the halt may need more facilities when it reopens. Plenty of other railways have achieved that without destroying the original structures that give that location its heritage. The L&B should strive to protect what it has, and build upon it, not treat it as a green field site.


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  14. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Delightful - and crucially, historic and telling a part of the story in my book. If there is to be a loop at Parracombe (which there would need to be if the s73 extension goes through), other facilities could be installed on the other platform.
     
  15. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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  16. Tintagel

    Tintagel New Member

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    It would be daft to get rid of the SR concrete shelter at Parracombe. Given the place isn't going to much more than Killington Lane 2.0, (i.e a spot to get out and watch the train run round) the shelter is ideal for catering to the tiny minority of people who find themselves at Parracombe between trains.

    The shelter should be the centerpoint of Parracombe as a relic of the orginal railway.
     
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  17. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
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  18. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Thanks, @RailWest - but presumably the loop would be left in situ when the line is extended (it would be presumably provide some operational flexibility versus not having it?)
     
  19. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    A couple of green portaloo's should suffice to solve that issue and allay any fears the objectors have of people using the road or church yard to 'relieve' themselves,, no doubt a lot cheaper too especially as Parracombe is only planned to be a temporary terminus for 3 years
     
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  20. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Mention here earlier about John Betjeman "I could not in my wildest imagination see Sir John Betjeman eulogising Parracombe shelter" set me thinking - JB had an acute eye for detail- he eulogized on both the picturesque, and the utilitarian ("Rumbling under blackened girders, Midland-bound for Cricklewood"). Having just recently watched his 1963 ode to the remains of the Highbridge branch ("Let's Imagine"- A Branch Line Railway), I cobbled together this pastiche of an imaginary visit by JB to the remains of the L&B for a TV production, around the same time:

    JB (in porkpie hat and raincoat), to camera: "This is all that remains of the little halt at Parracombe. The trains didn’t pass here, and so it only ever had the one platform. During the summer season, this was where the healthier got out- the explorers and hikers, freed for a fortnight from their city desks in Mincing Lane and Clerkenwell, would alight, dressed in striped pullovers and stout boots, along with their sun-tanned, long-limbed wives and girlfriends. And with haversacks slung casually across their shoulders, would strike out across the moor towards places like Heddon’s Mouth, with its views of Wales, far across the Bristol Channel.
    Whilst others less adventurous might stroll up there-(camera pans)- to yonder ancient church of St Petrock, with it’s blessedly unrestored interior, built from the local stone, in the 10th century.
    And even here, in this remote scoop of Exmoor, the "go ahead" Southern Railway left its distinct identity, in the shape of this tiny platform shelter, somewhat incongruously built from concrete, a product of its works at Exmouth Junction, yet sure to resist Exmoor’s wintery blast. Its all that remains now, along with this little stone bridge, taking the lane to St Petrock over where the railway, with its bustling tank engines once ran, but now only grass remains…

    Lynton line, your hopes have died,
    Flown down the West Lyn with the tide,
    Out, out into the open sea,
    Oh sad, forgotten L and B"

    I hope he'll forgive me the liberty!
     

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