7027 Thornbury Castle

I cannot agree with that and l am tired of others using the silly expression ''Frankenstein''. It will be a County as much as the Gresley P2 will be a P2. In the latter case the ''wrong'' boiler is being used ,the wrong boiler pressure and the ''wrong'' length but it will still be a magnificent P2. I think some people should try and use less petulant language and a bit more generosity of spirit.

 

We're all entitled to our opinions, but that does seem unfair. My understanding is that the stay arrangements of the 8F firebox only permit the rebuilt, correct length boiler on the new County to be pressed to 225psi for insurance purposes. The original Counties all were running at 250 rather than 280psi by the late 50's. I believe the cylinders of 1014 will be slightly bored out which will very nearly bring its tractive effort (not that the figure means a lot) up to the 250psi level. There is a view that steaming rate is more important than the psi setting of the safety valves. People forget that 6000 King George V ran during all of its main line period from 1971 at 225 rather than 250psi and on at least one occasion it produced an epic DBHP output. The recreated 1014 will be a superb locomotive, not a cheap imitation. Cheers.

 

Reality check - 4709 (or what there is of it) is a set of frames at Tyseley currently requiring much remedial work to horn blocks & stays, maybe more, probably the result of poor work by a previous contractor located in the Dee valley. It is a long way off being even a rolling chassis.

The earning potential of a completed Night Owl is minimal compared to other locomotives. Its size and poor route availability really make it a Galas only type - and then on only a couple of lines which are suitable.

This really is a very badly thought out vanity project White Elephant rather than any sort of Owl.

 

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False equivelance. One is being made in true Frankenstein fashion, whereas the other is being made from the ground up using an existing design (albeit altered to adhere to modern manufacturing standards), plus no loco in a part-restored state is being sacrificed.

 

A '' true Frankenstein fashion '' ? Like the GWR did in creating the Dukedog ?

 

I concur and too have been reflecting on what I've read so far :

The bit that seems to have been omitted from the 4709 website under "what of 7027's other components" is how much of a rolling chassis has been achieved by GCR so far and what work (excluding the boiler) remains outstanding against what timeline? What of the Hawksworth tender in terms of time and money spent too far? Is this further advanced than say, 5029 whereby the latter's boiler could speed a return of a Castle from LSL at Crewe if sold on?

The GCR had been requesting donations of components required to complete 7027 and as far as I recall, had most of what was needed or had been missing? I feel some regret for any efforts that have been wasted for those not directly funded by the previous owner.

4709 on the other hand is in my mind unlikely to reach completion in the next ten years - and that's my optimistic suggestion. I am a big fan of the GWS, of what Didcot has to offer as a representation of an ex-GWR shed full of locomotives and of many of the 'new build' projects. I'm not comfortable that sacrifice of 7027 at this stage of restoration is the right decision - just my personal opinion of course.

As someone who has visited Didcot since the mid 70s, what is obvious is that the number of volunteers working on projects such as 7202 and others, has fallen off significantly and we could all discuss the reasons why that might be. The days of early retirement and volunteering has changed much over the past 50 years for sure. My concern is that GWS have too many major projects simultaneously in play against a general reduction and shortfall of funds and labour. The new builds currently in build with exception of 1014 are unlikely to grace our heritage railways within my lifetime and for those who hark back to locomotives they saw as a child and want to see again then I can only say that I hope I'm proven very wrong. ;-)

 

Another false equivalence. The GWR was a business intent on making a profit. The Great Western Society is a museum with the aim of preserving history.

 

I don't think people were saying they weren't restorable. Given enough time and money anything is restorable. One only has to look at "restored" flying Spitfires which feature just a couple of data plates from a recovered wreck. But they never were going to be restored. They'd been rejected in favour of better projects multiple times, components had been stolen and there are enough out of ticket locomotives around the place that there are no shortage of locomotives to spend money on. In ten, fifteen years time there are going to be plenty of steam locomotives, but the volunteers to work on them will be considerably rarer.

 

My latest issue of Trackside has arrived and to add a bit more spice to the discussion, it says as well as using the loco for the 47XX, they also considering to look into using remaining parts to create a new Star.

I do share some of the feelings regarding Didcot (as much as I enjoy visiting) and it's new builds, especially with most of the focus being on them rather than the collection it already has and the increasing limited space to store and display them.

 

Those more "in the know" have suggested that this is fake news.

 

I'm certainly not a fan of the "Brown Region" , but I think the description of 7027 being "In storage at GCRs Loughborough facilities.." is rather wide of the mark judging by "Flying Phil's" regular postings on the subject on here!

 

Martin, this seems to be another of your schemes along the lines of “restore loco A, hire fees then pay for loco B …” etc etc. you seem to think there is money in owning locos. The reality is that if you own a loco, you lose money; and if you own two locos, you double your opportunities to lose …. A realistic estimate for either loco is that they are going to cost a seven figure sum to get into service; and a middling six-figure sum at every subsequent overhaul: they will never pay for themselves from revenue alone.

That’s not to decry the efforts of those individuals, groups and companies that restore locos. But let’s not pretend there is some magic business case or virtuous circle of one engine paying for another.

Tom

 

I remember a few years back, when 7027 was still at Peak Rail, there was discussion and horror at rumours that the loco would be purchased for conversion to a Star. Then JJP bought it and announced plans to restore it. Relief all round, a saviour at last. Then it’s back into the doldrums. Next another saviour with enough financial clout gets the restoration under way in earnest at Loughborough. Happy days. Now we’re back to cutting it up and maybe building a Star again. I wonder how many more times the wheel will go round - or not.

 

Several of my friends are owners/part owners of various Diesel Locomotives, the old adage of making a small fortune from them, is starting off with a large fortune.

 

Didcot also aims to inspire and educate, oh yes, it also aims to pay its way. That is why it is just about to have a Paddington Bear day! I am quite a fan of Iron Duke , its worth hanging around the Transfer shed to hear the reaction of visitors as they turn the corner. A faithful reproduction? No ,not with its Austerity internals but it looks right, it inspires and educates. In that sense Ellerman Lines at the NRM is a vital exhibit but no doubt the alterations caused apoplexy amongst some purists.