North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

There seemed to be a fair amount of anger on here at the prospect of a same platform change if the Wareham service only runs as far as Corfe Castle and folks would have to change there. The prospect of a platform change (not even cross platform) on a planned basis would just not be anything other than a Tripadvisor negative publicity generating exercise. I would also agree with your other point on safety, on a fairly narrow platform.

 

Yes I appreciate that it is not the NYMR's infrastructure and the costs associated with works on the national network, thanks. The question was whether such works would alleviate the perceived problem or not.

 

I would say that over half of the passengers are travelling through to Whitby, of which two-thirds originate at Pickering. But if the service was lost or split, then all the Whitby originating passengers would be lost together with maybe two-thirds of the Pickering originating passengers to Whitby. So overall I’d guess an overall 40% reduction in patronage, and 50% loss in income, leading to sizable reduction in train services to possibly just leaving the Moorsland Explorer services we see today; and maybe with some of the existing steam services replaced by DMU. Whilst there would be also be a reduction in costs and pressure on the number of volunteers with such a reduction, I just don’t see an increase in operating margin just an overall degradation in the service and heritage offering we see today. My views of course.

 

I think people overestimate the draw of Whitby as a destination. Most passengers go there because that is where the train goes. If the train terminated at Grosmont they would simply go there instead. The main draw for passengers is the journey on a steam train with the destination being largely unimportant. If Whitby was such a draw, Northern would be running far more longer trains there than they currently do to satisfy demand.

 

I'm not so sure. I recently mentioned the possibility of a trip on the Moors to a friend of mine - not an enthusiast, Needless to say - who lives in York.

"Where does it go?" she asked.
"Grosmont."
"Oh. I've never heard of it."
"But they have permission to run some trains over the main line into Whitby".
Her face lit up: "ooh...now THAT might be worth doing!"

I think this is a fairly typical response for the younger generation...they're not much interested in a steam train trip for its own sake, but if the destination is attractive enough, they'll start to view it as an appealing proposition for a day out.

Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk

 

It is a combination of the two. If it was simply Whitby people would drive there, which is gebb no really what happens from places like Middlesbrough. Coming from West Yorkshire there it an obvious attraction in combining the two of you want to.
The problem with the present booking arrangements is that you can’t have the day in Whitby so there is less incentive to use the NYMR as your means of transport to get there. I naturally get free travel and have used it for my days out in Whitby but that is unlikely to happen in the future as it would no longer be a day out unless I then did something else.

 

Re day trips Pickering to Whitby: the Bronze timetable gives nearly 3 hours in Whitby whilst Gold gives over 5 hours. Personally, when the weather is a bit 0ff then I find 3 hours for the Bronze service just the right amount of time for fish and chips and to visit the shops both sides of the river, whereas I find 5 hours is a bit too long. But on a fine day I suppose 5 hours also gives time on the beach, but I’m a bit too old for that…

Even on the days when I’ve visited by car out of season, I don’t think we’ve ever stayed longer than 3 hours.

 

I'm not so sure. I recently mentioned the possibility of a trip on the Moors to a friend of mine - not an enthusiast, Needless to say - who lives in York.

"Where does it go?" she asked.
"Grosmont."
"Oh. I've never heard of it."
"But they have permission to run some trains over the main line into Whitby".
Her face lit up: "ooh...now THAT might be worth doing!"

I think this is a fairly typical response for the younger generation...they're not much interested in a steam train trip for its own sake, but if the destination is attractive enough, they'll start to view it as an appealing proposition for a day out.

One of the recurring themes on Nat Pres is that heritage railways will have to adapt to survive, and I think that this post sums up why. Th can't just get by being a railway that offers rides behind steam engines. The traffic on the NYMR seems to be mostly to Whitby, there's a lot less in the opposite direction. This tells me, at least, that every station on the railway needs to become a worthwhile destination in its own right and whilst we as enthusiasts may find that the present offering does that for us, I'm not sure that our average passenger feels the same way. IMHO, by and large people have to be lead to where we want them to go and provided with stuff to see. That will take time, investment and creativity but if done correctly I'm sure it would be supported by the various grant awarding bodies. One of the reasons so many passengers choose to go through to Whitby is that there's not enough to hold them in the other villages along the line.

 

Looks like I stimulated a good bit of conversation.
Last year we decided not to travel on the gala services, but stayed over and travelled the day after with 2999 in use. Enquiries the day before at Levisham was the ticket office wouldn't be manned so buy today for tomorrow. This we duly did and obtained a written rover ticket for the day which the travelling TTI scratched his head at first but said, as long as you've paid your brass you can ride. We didn't book any trains.
The general email I have received this morning from NYMRS suggests that I will not be able to buy any tickets on the day and must book in advance, except for short station to station journeys.
My planned riding for Easter Sunday was:

10.20 Levisham - Goatland
10.50Goatland - Levisham
11.20 Levisham - Grosment
Enforced break, no trains, lunch, shed, book shop
14.30 Grosmont - Pickering
16.00 Pickering - Goatland
16.50 Goatland - Levisham

This should involve most/all loco's in use.

If this is not going to be possible it will be another day walking and photographing, the railway will loose out, not me.

 

I think NYMR is well placed and is already serving its markets. I’d say there are five key markets, in my order…
Whitby; to visit. abbey, fish and chips, seaside, 199 steps
Goathland; to visit Hogwart Station and Aidensfield (Heartbeat and all that), start of the rail trail
Pickering; to visit the church with unique 15c paintings, castle and folk museum
Grosmont; to visit the MPD, and returning from the railtrail
Levisham; for local walks

But the key market remains Whitby for most passengers, either as a seaside destination or for people already on holiday there.

 

Trains can be booked on the day (or for a future date) at a manned booking office subject to space being left on the train, but there is no guarantee there will be space left by then. So, in your instance I’d book a return ticket in advance on the 10.00 Pickering to Grosmont service.

 

Mary Shelley's Frankenstein has strong links to Whitby, which puts it firmly in the 'international league' With the best will in the world, Grosmont can't stake such claim to fame.

 

For those who feel that Whitby running is dominating the line too much, I would suggest that the only answer is to remove the running to Whitby all together other than on special occasions.

Running just one train to Whitby will likely mean that it needs to be pre-booked or it will just become completely overrun. It it is pre-booked then my concern would be people thinking "oh well if I can't go to Whitby then I just won't bother".

Scrapping running to Whitby altogether would in my view lessen the risk of the above, but would still reduce riding levels to an extent.

Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk

 

I would suggest Goathland isn't the pull it was 20 years ago either.

Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk

 

You paint very very doom-laden picture, but I think you considerably overstate it. Before the NYMR started running to Whitby it was thriving, and I don't think Whitby increased patronage by 50%. When the NYMR was a heritage railway that stopped at Grosmont people accepted the situation and got off and went for a look around the MPD and that without significant effort to make it an attractive destination. Few waited for a NR pacer to Whitby. Quite why we'd see a degradation in the heritage offering we see today also defeats me - NR running is what is killing heritage on the NYMR - coaches having to be rebuilt with central locking, window bars, flashing tail lights, fluorescent strips on door edges and so on. Teak coaches can only be run on some trains because most stock is needed to run to Whitby at some point.

It is naive to think that simply carrying on as before will work - an attraction, commercial or heritage, needs to evolve and change over time if it wants to stay in business - the commercial theme parks we might have visited 10-15 years ago will have been extensively altered then with old rides closed and new ones open. Railways need to recognise the need to change, and not wait for it to be forced on them.

 

What does this buy me, just one round trip, or can I sit on the trains all day?

 

The problem is for those of your thinking that the decision to run to Whitby WAS made. Removing something which was in place does not necessarily leave you in the position you would have been in if it had never happened.

Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk

 

I would argue the opposite. Better to control numbers than let passengers have a bad experience through having to stand all the way from Whitby to Pickering, and leaving a bad TA review or not returning. Whilst I’m sure the majority of passengers who find their booked service full would then book an alternative service.

 

Sit on the train all day… just need to book the first service you intend to travel on.

 

The fact there is an ongoing debate (among enthusiasts) about what you can and cannot do must show that the website is not clear enough for Joe Public to cope with.