Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Bluebell Times - March 2022 issue - is now published.

In this issue:

• Flying Scotsman to fly south again
• Storm Eunice leaves the railway battered but unbowed
• Plans for the miniature railway gather pace
• The Jewel in the Crown appeal formally closes having raised a tremendous £591,500 – now the work on the ground can begin
• The museum unveils a new trove of historic images

The Bluebell Times is published monthly on the second Friday of every month. The next issue is due out on Friday 8 April.

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/bluebell-times/

Tom

 

I guess that's the difference between having a number of full time paid staff working on something, and a group of volunteers who only work weekends (even if there are more volunteers than paid staff). The professionals will also probably work more efficiently (e.g. I can build a brick wall, but it takes me 10 times longer than a professional would as I have to keep checking everything I do is level etc).

 

When it's a choice between them and that pain in the neck, then the Southern win.
But then again, they weren't best all rounders like we had on the Western.

 

Made a visit to Sheffield Park last Sunday. Got a picture of 80151 and Camelot together, while the latter was waiting to take out the dining train:

 

West Hoathly Station should return. East Grinstead is the only station on the railway that's actually in the town it serves and as much as I like the preserved stations on that line, I'm struggling to understand why 3 stations in the back-end of nowhere were reinstated over the only other station located in a civilised area on that route.

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They were reinstated quite simply because they were already there. West Hoathly was not. It was demolished around 1968, and the locals made it quite clear that they did not wish to see it return, as it was believed that it would bring tourists, gricers and other undesirables, along with their cars to Sharpthorne. In fact one of the conditions of consent for the extension was that there was to be no station, and consequently the railway made no provision for one.
However, in more recent years, it appears that the local attitude may be softening, and consequently, tentative provision has been made in the most recent long term plan for what might be provided when (if) the time comes.
It would be a close replica of the standard Myres design, but with a single platform only, no loop, so rather like Barcombe. This would be a very expensive project to undertake, so the demand for it would have to be absolute, and a business case made.
In any case, there is many years of deferred maintenance to be caught up with, yet. Relaying the main line to complete, "Jewel in the Crown" yet to start, and a proper interchange station at East Grinstead yet to be designed, funded and built, so I doubt there will be a station at West Hoathly in my lifetime, at least. A shame, but then the real world is so often there with a bucket of cold water to throw over WIBN

 

A proper interchange station? I was under the impression that the station they have now would be it, perhaps with some improvements but but nothing radical.

I know there were plans before for something a bit grander and integrated with the national network's station, but that fell through in the end for various reason from what I understand. Has circumstances changed now?

 

Perhaps I should have been clearer- there will still be 2 separate stations, as was originally envisaged, but with built facilities, and hopefully in a "Southern Moderne" style, which would a)- provide decent facilities for arriving passengers, and b)- provide something which would not look ridiculously out of place within its setting, and be a point of transition from the modern era back into the steam age. A small group have been working on feasibility studies for a while now, but space is the principal constraint here. Whether a little more can be aquired to enable this is still a matter for the future.
Incidentally, the original concept of two stations partly linked together was scotched by Network Rail, who insisted on a clear access point x metres wide, to enable vehicular access to NR tracks. This effectively separates the stations, and ate into the available space for the original idea, one of the reasons we ended up with what we have now.

 

I think the Bluebell have said they're looking at plans to improve East Grinstead, the art deco design I thought was long abandoned (I remember a concept being made of how it could look). Given the limited space available, I'm not too sure what can be done.

Is the line still in possession of the former Surbiton WHSmith kiosk that was rescued for possible use at EG?

 

Others have tried ..... and failed!

 

It's a shame the time wasn't right to reinstate West Hoathly in the 1990s, but as you say it didn't happen.

That said, and being a bit speculative - I wonder what happens with the Ibstock brickworks at West Hoathly? If the ground levels have to be reinstated that would be a very large amount of infill that has to be transported, and I suspect lorry load would be untenable. (It is about 8 miles to the M23 from West Hoathly, mostly on small roads). So potentially there could be a planning gain type situation where incoming top soil to re-instate the land comes by rail with the Bluebell providing the infrastructure (which would require a loop and siding etc at West Hoathly) in exchange for the funds to construct a station there?

(The tip clearance at Imberhorne was around 110 outgoing train movements, each of which was probably equivalent to 40 - 50 lorry lorry loads; double that for lorry movements. Reinstatement at Ibstock Brick could be at least comparable, possibly larger).

Tom

 

I stand corrected

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It's an interesting thought, Tom. From satellite, the Eastern (still operating) part of the site looks huge, although the depth of the excavations are very difficult to gauge.
I see partof the site has already been returned to nature as a lake. My hunch is that the same will become of the east pit, but if not, there's certainly a potential income stream there. I wonder if the residents of Sharpthorne have been consulted about the future of the site, yet?

 

My assumption was the long term future would be housing! (Now, where would the bricks come from? )

Tom

 

Haha! Probably recycled plastic, the way we're going. No, the trouble with infilling, is that "made ground" tends to be unsuitable for building, at least without expensive piling, or concrete rafting, which, even then, may still be prone to settlement.

 

Which begs the question: realistically, is the demand ever going to be there? I'm sure West Hoathly is a lovely place but, AIUI, it is a small one. Is there really going to be anything to entice visitors to get off the train there? (Except for photographers on gala days, of course.)

I can't help but wonder whether, if a station were to be reinstated, it would be better just to build simple, unstaffed request halt: reinstate the platform and provide a small waiting shelter, but not bother with a proper station building. Or, perhaps construct a building which replicates the old station externally, but is furnished internally as a holiday let - which would probably generate more income for the railway than a functioning station building.

 

I think one of the most recent propsals for the site, was to build a halt at West Hoathly rather than rebuild the original station.

In terms of local interest, Gravetye Manor is nearby in West Hoathly (the station, despite it's name is located in neighbouring village Sharpthorne, hence the name of the tunnel built below it) and the lease of the Manor is owned by a certain Mr Hosking, who has named one of the 5BEL Pullmans after it.

 

There is passive provision at Kingscote Signal box for signalling at West Hoathly. However, personally I can’t see ever having a loop to pass trains there; it is complexity without actually giving any timetable benefit (IMHO). The limiting factor on the timetable is the length of the Sheffield Park - Horsted Keynes section, so shortening Kingscote - Horsted doesn’t really offer anything in timetable terms.

So from a passenger point of view, a halt would be all that is required at West Hoathly.

What I would like to see explored would be whether WH would be a suitable site for the large exhibits museum in the Long Term Plan. That would give a reason for getting off the train and save over-development elsewhere.

But it is all speculative at the moment; I don’t think there are any concrete plans and there are plenty of other priorities.

Tom

 

Before the line regained Kingscote, was the temporary loop at West Hoathly, just short of the now reinstated under-bridge, signalled in any way? I recall a ground frame for points, but not whether there were signals, or a phone link with HK.

 

Also worth noting that Sharpthorne / West Hoathly village centre is actually a fair walk from the site of the station. Sure not as much of one as Horsted Keynes to Horsted Keynes village, but it's up quite a decent hill through a housing estate for what amounts to a relatively meagre amount of attraction. Not attempting to do down the village(s), far from it, but it's not exactly Bewdley or Goathland as an intermediate location.