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Project Wareham

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by David R, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    Imagine as a 70+ senior I step down at Wareham Station rolling luggage to hand. I board the DMU to Swanage and that is where i want to go, I do not want to be tipped out at Corfe, again with my luggage to clamber aboard,much as i love them, a steam hauled train.
    Some of you are making it very difficult for people to travel by train. Or should I have caught the bus at Wareham and deprived SR of the income??
     
  2. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    That sounds great. How many of "you" are there?

    BR made things difficult 50 years ago, because not enough people wanted to get to Swanage by train. What's evolved since is a fundamentally different operation to what was killed off in the 1970s, and I'd be very careful about trying to revert.
     
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  3. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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  4. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    OK, so let us say there 2-4 of us. Why would i put myself and others through the inconvenience of changing trains at Corfe( as a visitor,i do not qualify for a bus pass) Might as well lug it all onto a bus or more expensively ,into a cab. Can I expect volunteer porters to help me with luggage at Corfe,I think not.Is this the convenience that DCC ponied up the money for? Don't forget I am going to be putting money into the local economy and if they want me to return it would behoove all involved to make it a simple rather than complicated experience.
     
  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    But my question remains - how many of “you” are there? Not just trying to make those journeys, but also willing to pay the railway fare for the connection - either for preference or because ineligible for the free bus.

    Running the through service will undoubtedly be beneficial for some users, but if the costs significantly outweigh the income generated, the effect on the railway as a whole is likely to be detrimental.

    The determination to put back what BR removed is highly creditable, but it has to be based on what’s practical. And if those who make the Swanage work are saying that the economics of regular running on to Network Rail metals just don’t stack up, then they deserve respect.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I rode a few of the first trial trains, photographed and saw many more (was going to the Post Office everyday then) and I think I saw 3 groups with luggage during the whole time.
    There was a survey undertaken during that first trial, I guess the luggage figures may be known somewhere.
    Most (including me) would say network trains are not exactly luggage friendly these days anyway.
     
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  7. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    If a reasonable service is provided from Wareham it will be used. Do you want the SR to only be accessible by private car or bus? Pre Covid millions of visitors to Britain used the Train especially those from North America The sheer aggravation of navigating UK traffic frightens many from driving. If you go back deep enough into the history of SR one of its key personalities was a social/economics professor, Andrew Goltz and he and other stalwarts provided the political and practical impetus for the Swanage Railway Project with a clearly stated aim of the return of an amenity service to Wareham. Where the funds to provide that service come from is up to the SR and assorted levels of Government. There might be those for whom the advent of a PPP will discourage but it will certainly bring the satisfaction of a promise kept to those of us who signed up so long ago and IMHO the harbinger of similar transformations elsewhere of "heritage" railways
     
  8. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    ...and correct me if i am wrong. Is not the SR trackbed still owned by DCC? Swanage Station owned by the local authority? So when i read of The Mayor of London doubling down on congestion charging. the chaos of the BCP conurbation traffic,and indeed any major urban area in the UK then it is inevitable that a sea change is coming. Bureaucrats study what their contemporaries are doing at all levels so the political aspect of this debate may be stronger than some expect.
     
  9. Woof Mk2

    Woof Mk2 Member

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    " The Swanage Railway Trust, a registered charity, exists to preserve the heritage of the railways of southern England and especially of the Isle of Purbeck in Dorset, and re-establishing a rail link between the town of Swanage and the national rail network at Wareham. "
    The above from the Railways Trust website.

    Well as the "rail link" has been established we can now all move on to other projects
     
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  10. Woof Mk2

    Woof Mk2 Member

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    Not ALL the track bed is owned by Dorset Council
     
  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    On my travels, I do not recall those millions using the train in anything like the way you suggest. I also observe that the railway network was, pre-Covid, descending further and further into a narrowly functional service focused on commuters and business travellers, and squeezing out leisure travellers; the response to Covid so far suggests that this focus is getting more rather than less intense. I also note that, while there are various schemes intended to help tourist attractions recover from the depradations of Covid, they are not focused on developing new projects.

    I also observe that railway preservation has long since outgrown the era of providing amenity services, and that where such services exist, they are marginal to the railways involved. Indeed, where they have been raised - the WSR and ELR come to mind - the general reaction has been negative because facilitating modern services within a heritage railway raises significant practical and operational issues. Resolving those issues would jeopardise the heritage experience that makes these railways valuable, and impose significant burdens on the railway companies that they are ill-equipped to sustain. Whatever proposals Andrew Goltz and others put forward 50 years or so ago, the failure of amenity led operations to be sustainable back then, and more recently in Wensleydale and Weardale, suggests that other models are required.

    In the same way, I would hesitate to extrapolate from the politics of road charging in London into the likely approaches of a shire county. There are some very specific issues in play about the funding of TfL and the conditions of government bailouts, in which Khan is at times being forced to implement policies by the government in order to generate the GLA's share of income; issues that simply don't apply elsewhere. Were road pricing or other measures to be introduced in Dorset (and only a fool would rule it out), the essential component of the link has been preserved and restored, meaning that it would be open to the railway and local authorities to introduce something.

    However, if such a service is not self-sustaining at the fare levels that people will pay, it is not for the SR to demand that government of whatever level meet the shortfall - the SR has no right to it's existence, but must earn it year on year. To date, it has done so very well and effectively; let's not allow a niche demand jeopardise what has been done in the interests of a purist view of the original vision.
     
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  12. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    A lot of interesting points being made.
    According to post 3332 in the Swanage Railway thread
    https://www.national-preservation.c...eneral-discussion.37847/page-167#post-2533180
    the operating licence application was put into the ORR in 2019, about the time the DMUs returned, so trading could happen for 2020. There was also somewhere a link to the application document, then it was put on hold due to COVID.
    So it should be possible to easily reapply if the paper work has already been done.
    There is also getting the business case updated to ensure it will be viable now a WCR/LU train and a WCR crew do not need to be rented.
     
  13. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    35B beat me to it with most of his comments but I do not recognise too much of the Great Britain you describe.
    I see seriously cash strapped councils looking at cutting whatever services they can, or support they give (like reducing or removing bus subsidies) just to make ends meet to pay for the every spiralling social care budgets.
    Central government reducing the funding they give to councils.
    Two years of Covid where the message, either directly or indirectly, is that public transport is a dangerous form of travel.
    HM Treasury that seriously wants to reduce the cost of running the (in nationalised in all but name) railways following a broken franchise model.

    On a local level there has been opposition to an extra 89p per week for the policing precept. Can you imagine the outcry if the rail link needed funding?

    I do not dispute what the original aims were 50 years ago, but every business has to change to survive and the SR is a business these days like most Heritage Railways. What worked in the 70,s does not now. In the early 70's we were all going to be flying around the world on Concorde or the Boeing equivalent. That did not happen either due to changes.
     
  14. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

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    But Oliver, If you have flown from Toronto to Heathrow or Gatwick, would you have not hired a car,? That's what I did the last time I did rail fanning in Ontario in 2019.
    I think in my post, I also said Norden, No need to change platforms.
    BTW I too am a 70+ senior.
     
  15. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    Athough has some relevance to Project Wareham as may who may use the reconnected line are cyclists, have opened a new thread on General rail chat to discuss further
     
  16. DcB

    DcB Well-Known Member

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    One of the future options is to occasionally run the mainline certified 31806 steam loco, the 33 diesel and the mainline certified Mk1 carriages (which will require locking doors and maybe updated toilets) from Wareham to Swanage, preannounced to link with SWR trains from London for tourists and enthusiasts , and for special charters.
    see https://www.swanagerailwaytrust.org/giving under Moguls
    ("All engines will be overhauled to mainline standards to enable them to operate to and from Wareham and beyond in future")
    With the heritage rake train and the TC4/5 train progressing, then it would not matter to much if the mainline certified rake was used for the occasional mainline use.
     
  17. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    ..and how many movements were there on that link in the past 12/24/36 months??
     
  18. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    I think that you would agree it is a lot easier to navigate North American Highways as a visitor than vice versa. With a Britrail pass i can travel 1st class,sit back(used to get a few free scotches on Virgin!!) and Let the Train take the Strain. I am not expecting free bevvies on the Wareham Swanage run BUT I am expecting to get there in a civilized and convenient manner. Am i asking too much?
     
  19. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Ys, as an individual you are. If the trial service proves that there aren't sufficient like-minded folk who want to use the link when it finally runs then I trust that you will accept the result and not start claiming, like your near-ish neighbour that the result was "stolen"!
     
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  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    @61624 largely answers for me, but I think your post asks the wrong question - the right one being how many people are with you in asking for that.
     

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