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Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by 50044 Exeter, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Torrefied biomass might prove to be a good quality steaming coal replacement and, as the article concludes, research is iterative, so that we might well see some useful advances in the near-ish future. It's good to know that thought is being applied to this question.
    I wonder whether any steam engineers (are there any left?) have applied their minds to the notion of hydrogen power though? I would think that it would require a complete re-design of fuel delivery. Were there any historical designs of gas-powered steam engines? If so, these might at least point the way.
     
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  2. Meatman

    Meatman Member

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    interestingly,work had come to a standstill because of one of the extensions,as i understand it emails were sent on numerous occasions to the man at the top but no reply was forthcoming,he could have sent one of his minions down to Chelfham but no action was taken,through sheer frustration what happened next happened but the site was completely safe,that happened at the beginning of September,the rubble was cleared,the site tidied up and said area was cordoned off,also towards the end of the month the gala was held,someone from the trust must have know about this but nothing was done until after the gala weekend,now im not condoning what had happened but the comments of the members and visitors was one of joy ,it has even been said since that if what took place hadn't happened then this years progress might not have been,had the trust just given those involved a bloody good bollocking and then been pro-active Chelfham would have been where it is now 3 years ago and more importantly,Eric Leslie would have seen his beloved station in all its glory before he sadly passed away,The L&BR is not just about Woody bay as some would like to think,its about the smaller stations and halts that are accessible,that make up the whole railway experience,these smaller places are also many peoples first contact with the L&BR when they stumble across them,and more importantly its about those who have supported this railway over many years but have sadly passed away without seeing any significant progress
     
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  3. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    I think this illustrates the central disagreement: very significant progress is being made, but it is not very visible / tangible because it is planning permission and trackbed acquisition, all of which is absolutely essential before the rails head south from the current railhead.

    There is literally no alternative to an extension inside the National Park than the course adopted. And before someone says "well, we should've started outside the park", firstly that ship sailed 20 years ago, and second you'd still need planning and, as I understand it, a TWAO to cross a public road anyway.

    What this doesn't preclude is practical work in maintaining the existing operational line, on the keeping the existing non-operational trackbed in good shape, Snapper and Chelfam, and to the extent it doesn't disturb the tenants, at BF and Parracombe Halt, too. It also doesn't preclude the excellent home work on the signalling equipment or Pilton East's carriages.

    Ideally in fact, you'd do all of these things in a prioritised and transparent manner, and manage and recognise the contributions of all. There's a place for all and for progress on multiple fronts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
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  4. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    I remember this. It was all to do with building footprints, wasn't it? Something along the lines of: in order to obtain planning permission for the cabin in the woods, the existing building footprint had to be maintained for the time being, or something, at least that was the reason given.
    Was that known by the Chelfham gang at the time, or only communicated after the event? Either way, the lack of communication would have driven me mad, too, and because of that, you lost a key player, and a great deal of trust. There's no excuse for ignoring simple communication, particularly in this day and ag. I know we live in an increasingly totalitarian society, but that is no excuse for replication in miniature. If i lived a different life, I would be down at Chelfham working every weekend, largely because it represents such an escape from the world we live in.
     
  5. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't agree more, Tobbes. However what Andy was referring to was that rather ugly incident when the plug got pulled on Chelfham a few years back, and all progress was halted for quite some while, something which would have sent me up a tree, had I been working there.
     
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  6. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    As a general observation, it does seem to be an increasingly common situation that some Trustees of heritage railways seem to act in a somewhat high-handed manner, managing in the process to alienate many of those volunteers upon whom their railway relies. To give an example which came to my notice recently in another county not far away.... With the advent of COVID a Board switched to having all its meetings by Zoom and also sent all intra-Board communications by e-mail etc. One long-serving Trustee had neither a commuter nor internet access, nor any desire/need to spend money to obtain them, a fact well known to his fellow Trustees. Apparently without making any effort to facilitate his participation by other means, after the relevant period had elapsed in accordance with their Constitution they dismissed him from the Board for 'ignoring correspondence and failing to attend Board meetings'. Apparently his years of invaluable work for the railway counted for nowt......
     
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  7. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Sure, it sounds like terrible communication hence the need for an overt, integrated plan.

    More importantly, I think it's critical to recognise that volunteering and donations are not 100% fungible- people won't just do or fund what high command says to unless they're really bought into the process.

    And communication and voice are central to that, I'd think. I'm not saying it is easy, but it is vital if you want to succeed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  8. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're more than right, i've seen this myself not on this railway but on two others, it kills off any incentive to help and eventually it will deprive the railway of the new blood it needs to survive.
     
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  9. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    What exactly are you suggesting? The work was carried in an unprofessional manner and there was a compleat disregard to health and safety. Is it suggested the volunteers are bunch of bumbling idiots.

    I disagree with who owns it. It’s owned by the members who put money into these projects. So therefore the members must be listened to, not have any communication ignored for months and months on end.

    I further do not agree that unsightly extension - - which in itself was a health and safety disaster waiting to happen hence the attempted communication - can be considered and asset. Talking of legal responsibilities, perhaps you can shed some light on the fact why the extension was in such a bad state of repair before the volunteers carefully took it down brick by brick not only improving health and safety but also improving chelfham in general. To be clear the roof beams were rotten and roof had actually fallen in at one corner, and there was a crack the size of the Grand Canyon in a supporting wall. If it haven’t of been taken down it would have fallen down.

    As such given the trust was not keeping up with the maintenance of the building causing a health and safety concerns, I think the point you bring to bear is of little value. Further the trust was potentially saved a substantial sum in personal injury payments.

    Of course no body gets to hear the entirety of the truth, So Martin let’s not the facts get in way. Let’s get them all out there shall we. Tell us your version not that you were there.

    That should also include the location of the alleged volunteer accommodation at Chelfham that is mentioned by the chairman. There is no accommodation save for a shed akin to a bonfire awaiting a box of matches. I’ll post a picture as soon as I can get up there so we can all see the accommodation in all its glory and ask why it has been allowed to fall into disrepair. Given it’s accommodation purposes and the trustees responsibilities towards looking after H&S as well as it’s assets further questions can then be asked.

    On the other hand this could be considered as good management because you can get work done for free and kick people off under the pretence that vandals smashed the place up and close the station for effect. No one will know what actually happened because there’s no need to disclose the whole truth including the prior concerns raised, so long as it looks like the trust is acting responsible. A few months later once the dust settles it can be used as a publicity stunt.

    This is the best way to save money and get things done, and an exemplary example of good management avoiding unnecessary costs. Well done to the board - Hip Hip…. Hooray


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  10. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    Split thought - given the volunteer in question can often be heard sing your praises - it appears you just stabbed him in the back!

    It’s looking more like the railway to east all the time.


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    Last edited: Nov 6, 2021
  11. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Conrod: sarcasm is a powerful tool best used sparingly. I'm not saying that you are wrong but surely you can get your thoughts across to Trust members? I suspect that if you continually resort to sarcasm you will become ever more marginalised. I'd have thought a better ploy would be to seek some allies...
     
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  12. ConRod1

    ConRod1 New Member

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    Thanks for the advice, but it appears putting facts out is met with simple attempts to discredit.

    Im just putting things as they are. Readers can take it or leave it. I'm not saying I should be believed at face value rather people should be looking inwards and asking questions.

    Sadly those who can see the problems are silenced as @Meatman has said there is no reciprocal communication with the trustees. If they don’t like what’s being said it’s ignored. What the trustees fail to consider is that whilst volunteers are free labour they come from wide and diverse backgrounds and have experience and expertise in many fields on industry.

    As such when concerns are put or advice offered it is generally with merit and with good intentions.

    I accept your comment about sarcasm but at what point do I stop banging my head against the wall, it seems some readers can’t see beyond the fairy tail picture the board of trustees would have us all believe.

    I’ll try and curb it that said sometimes sarcastically putting something makes people sit up and think.

    Being marginalised is one of the things you have get over when you’re in a minority holding different points of view but that said I’m here in N Devon not X amount of miles away reading and getting my facts from the glossy magazine.


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  13. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    To that, I would add that written sarcasm, particularly in a complex form such as you use, can often come across as inferring the opposite to what you intend. That has happened a few times now, with unfortunately confusing results, so don't think it's helping you put a point across, its actually quite the opposite, particularly when coupled with typos and missing punctuation.
    I find Andy's narrative much easier to follow.
     
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  14. SpudUk

    SpudUk Well-Known Member

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    I'd argue that regulation and statutory responsibilities have become increasingly strict and onerous that heritage railways have evolved from chummy organisations where lots of different individuals with shared desires work collectively on multiple outputs to highly structured organisations where projects and plans have to be centrally coordinated in dialogue with statutory authorities and in full compliance with a whole host of legislation. This is frustrating to some well-meaning individuals who just want to 'crack on', but that's not the world we operate in anymore. It means that volunteer management becomes essential but different - more professional, less informal, and therefore something that can be overlooked. It's a profession in it's own right, though one that can fall down the pecking order in the face of competing priorities - H&S, Data Protection, legal filings etc. and is usually then done by the wrong people (or not at all)
     
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  15. Vulcan Works

    Vulcan Works Member

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    That’s a curious statement. If it’s an independent forum then you’re bound to get a range of opinions! Some of the opinions will be to express dissatisfaction or concerns with aspects of an organisation, or suggestions of how to improve things. People don’t have to agree with everything posted.

    If railways were run by people who value open and honest lines of communication and welcome ideas and debate, then there would be less need to discuss things out in the open. Sadly some railways are run by people operating in a very old fashioned, closed shop kind of way where criticism equals dissent and the ‘offender’ must be removed. I don’t know if the L&B quite falls in to that camp but clearly some people are frustrated with the present arrangements.
     
  16. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    First, a correction to my post. Chelfham is NOT owned b the L&BR Trust. It is actually owned by the CIC ("B" share-holders, to be more precise), however, my point about liability and responsibility still stands. As for your statement that a
    Obviously, nobody has been banned for "outstanding dedication and loyalty to the L&B", but as a direct result of the destruction of the annexe prior to planning permission being granted, instead of being able to construct volunteer accommodation for use as a permanent residence, (replacing what had previously had been available via the station extensions) that accommodation can now only be occupied for 28 days each year - a considerable loss of resource to the L&B moving forward.

    Quoting from the North Devon Planning decision for the reinstatement of the accommodation lodge at Chelfham: (see https://planning.northdevon.gov.uk/Planning/Display/72293 for the full documentation)
    If only a few people had had a little more patience and respect for the rules...
     
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  17. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    And there's the rub. The L&B's choices seems to me to be (i) play by the rules, irrespective of how long it takes and frankly how frustrating it can be or (ii) don't ever extend the railway.

    There's simply no middle ground.

    This is not to say that the L&B Trust Board are beyond criticism - my own newbie posts here demonstrate that - but if we want to bring the L&B back over the vast majority of its 1935 route, then doing it the right way with the support of all of the Authorities is the only way that it will happen.
     
  18. Tobbes

    Tobbes Member

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    Point of clairification, is that what it actually means?

    I read that provision as allowing for year-round occupation, with the limitation on individuals being limited to 28 days' continuous residence per annum? In fact, it would appear to allow several periods of 28 days' occupation as long as they were non-consecutive. As such, it is only an imposition if the L&B were planning on having volunteers staying there for months at a time. This may or may not have been the plan (I've no idea) but for 'conventional' volunteer accomodation for, e.g., a weekend or a fortnight at a time, this doesn't seem like an impediment - or am I missing something?
     
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  19. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    That was exactly what I was going to say. Martyn's post is the first mention I have yet heard of the lodge being used as a "permanent residence", which seems to contradict the appellation "volunteer accommodation".
    So which was it intended as?
    Under the circumstances, for its use, NDC's terms seem perfectly reasonable.
    Also AIUI, the extensions demolition was stopped, and the structure, albeit dilapidated, remained in place until PP was granted. Something doesn't quite hang together here.
     
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  20. Old Kent Biker

    Old Kent Biker Member

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    The original station building, prior to the L&B acquiring it was, as I understand, residentially occupied without restriction and this continued for some time after, either as holiday accomodation (when I first visited it, it was so used) or for a longer-term tenancy. As such, had nothing been changed externally, the owner could have applied to restore it to original, as a station building, but retained the right to occupy the site permanently, by means of the lodge replacement, even if that wasn't the intention. I have to say the "any one person" for 28 days is a little ambiguous.

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