If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The suggestion is 4953 is on the market . This is of course may just be a railway grapevine conjecture , it could have substance so please treat it as such
     
  2. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Messages:
    5,294
    Likes Received:
    3,596
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Interesting! Too much loco for Epping-Ongar perhaps? It should find a ready buyer - don't Warner Bros want one for another theme park? Would be a terrible waste for that to happen, when a non-working replica would do just as well.
     
  3. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Are Halls not red route locomotives?

    Can someone remind me how much was spent on infrastructure in the last year?
     
  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Wasn't hickly point the only bit in his empire that was profitable ? seems a strange decision if that was the case, unless Someone has eyes on acquiring the assets of the WSRplc and need a readily availible sum of money to buy them should the banks call their loans in.
     
  5. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    1,173
    Likes Received:
    1,223
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Arguably that’s the best time to sell a company if you want a good price.
     
  6. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I wonder if JJP was offered a price he didn't want to refuse?

    But we're he to get control of the WSR what then?

    How would be find the necessarily capital expenditure?
     
  7. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    But not for the rest of his companies if it is the only bit that makes a profit.

    Tbh I'd not read anything wsr related into the sale. Buying a loco he can't use is pointless, taking control doesn't suddenly fix the infrastructure issues or resolve the lack of cash through the fare box. Of course if he wants to use the cash to pay the S&DRT for the Washford buildings, I'm not stopping him.
     
    Dennis John Brooks and jnc like this.
  8. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,381
    Likes Received:
    1,637
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ynysddu south wales
    I found one website that suggested that JJP Holdings got paid £8m for this, but I am rather sceptical of this.
     
  9. Piggy

    Piggy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    250
    Likes Received:
    327
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer


    As reported by Share Cast

    FirstGroup announced on Monday that its wholly-owned subsidiary First South West has acquired the remaining 50% shareholding in its Somerset Passenger Solutions (SPS) joint venture.

    The FTSE 250 passenger transport operator said the shares were acquired from JJP Holdings South West, giving it control over the business going forward.

    It said the consideration, being funded from its existing cash resources, was £8.4m paid on completion, with potential deferred consideration of up to £1.6m if certain conditions were met. ..........
     
    jnc likes this.
  10. 3ABescot

    3ABescot Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Messages:
    340
    Likes Received:
    606
    Location:
    Herefordshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thanks for the info. Whether it is something to "like" or to fear I don't know.
     
  11. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    would 8 Million enable JPP holdings to buy the company, from the receivers , if it came insolvent, and what would the likely price be?
     
  12. granmaree

    granmaree Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    497
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Cash in the bank or debts to be cleared first?
     
    35B likes this.
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,724
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Why are we assuming that the primary purpose of this would be WSR oriented? Without knowing anything of the choices to be made, I'd expect motives to include personal profit and the benefit of the whole portfolio of his businesses.
     
    Hampshire Unit, jnc, Snail368 and 2 others like this.
  14. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,892
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Like the old airline joke I suspect re the WSR
    Question How do you end up with £1m in the bank?
    Answer Start off with £8m.
     
    johnofwessex, jnc and 35B like this.
  15. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    335
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Kinlet Hall Ltd (01585117), a subsidiary of J J P HOLDINGS (SOUTH WEST) LIMITED, was carrying ~£340k of debt as at 29/2/2020
    JJP HEAVY HAULAGE LTD ~£130k, + a Bounce Back Loan taken out after 29/2/2020
    VINTAGE ROAD, RAIL AND STEAM LTD loss making, & has used a CBILS loan from the government

    So £1m could easily go on clearing debts.

    A quick look at the businesses suggests that they are largely in the 'hire' business, eg hiring cars & old buses out for weddings etc. I wouldn't expect that market to recover until mid 2022.
    I also don't believe it's a sector that particularly makes money.


    There is easily enough profit from the SPS sale for JJP to retire very comfortably, & have the vintage buses as a hobby.
    It would be daft to sink that money into something like taking over the WSR, as it's not going to produce a return.
     
    ross, johnofwessex, Greenway and 4 others like this.
  16. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    335
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    I believe the house is let out.
    I also doubt the income from that letting is covering the cost of the mortgage on it.
     
  17. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    However,... this is WSR SM we are talking about here though. The evidence of the last few years does not convince me those at the top are rational, logical or coherent in their decision making.
     
    MellishR likes this.
  18. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    As someone who is directly involved in the wedding industry, I can tell you that after the 18 month enforced closure of business in the sector, the market is currently booming already and doesn’t need until mid 2022 to recover, in fact the last three bookings I have taken have been for 2023 and one in 2024. There is basically plenty of work out there at the moment.

    Your assumption that wedding transport is not profitable is also incorrect, it’s actually quite profitable when done correctly.
     
    jnc likes this.
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,724
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Your final line is entirely correct, yet preservation history is full of examples of people making decisions that are not economically driven. We lack both the full context for the sale and it's investment, and also sufficient insight into JJP's intentions to do anything more than speculate randomly on how the money may be used.
     
    Hampshire Unit, jnc and MellishR like this.
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Since becoming chair, He has made several references to it being his railway, he also tried to get others to ponder buying out the shareholding of the PLC, It would be a heart over head decision, most likely based on his own ego, than an measured decision, that would I am sure lead to personal bankruptcy because the line can never pay for itself, as it is at the moment, the only way it might, would be if the freehold could be acquired, and large land plots and everything non railway sold for redevelopment. such as selling BL Station House, Minehead station site, to finance a new, much smaller station beyond seaward way.
     

Share This Page