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Rother Valley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by nine elms fan, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    IANAL, but their claim feels a little stronger than that - taking that document at face value, they’ve suffered costs due to the delay. Whether or not the behaviour of the RVR meets the test of “unreasonableness” I wouldn’t like to say - and I do slightly suspect gamesmanship in the timing and language, of the sort more frequently found on the sports field.


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  2. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    What seems germaine to their application is their claim that RVR uneccessarily delayed their request for adjournment, so incurring "uneccessary" additional legal costs for the plaintiffs, and the scrutiny of the reasons for that delay will presumably decide whether their claim stands or falls.
    The email from Paul Harwood of Highways England to Mike Hart:
    https://gateleyhamer-pi.com/filer/sharing/1628005715/10235/
    seems to indicate that there are now only 2 issues left to resolve, those being adequate speed mitigation in order to provide safe sighting/ stopping distances from the roundabout to the crossing, and adequate prevention of any backed-up traffic fom blocking the roundabout. (Does anyone know if yellow box sections have been discussed for this?- that would provide a greater imperative than the usual "Keep Clear" quadrants).
    Finally, I'd just like to join with others in saying what an excellent closing statement from Sir Peter Hendy, its principal strengths being a refreshingly holistic viewpoint, giving credit where it is due, and looking towards the future of joined up travel.
    Apart from anything else, this enquiry will provide an invaluable template for the L&B, when their TWAO eventually comes up for scrutiny.
     
  3. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Having listened in to the Inquiry for some of today, the matter of costs was discussed and there will be a response from the RVR's legal team shortly.
    The last witness for the Objectors appeared this morning. There seems to be concern that if RVR get the TWAO and the land is purchased that there will not be sufficient funds to complete the construction.
    Closing statements from the objectors should appear on the website tomorrow with RVR's shortly afterwards.
     
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  4. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    One thing that repeatedly comes to mind when we discuss level crossings on heritage railways is this.
    'Level crossings are dangerous. Cars are prevented from colliding with trains only by flimsy temporary barriers, and these might be faulty in operation, or abused or misused by motorists or pedestrians- so a level crossing fundamentally is too dangerous to consider'
    So, without a level crossing being there, what prevents one car from colliding with another?
    A stripe of paint on the ground-nothing to go wrong there.
     
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  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The RVR already have the track needed to join up the missing link, in storage, the only remaining high cost will be the prefabricated crossings, which i am sure have been costed, cables and video for signalling and the cctv installations, then ballasting, which will come in in bulk from NR i would expect there is already funds available, being held back, to ensure when it's needed, its there to ensure the re instatement can proceed , its going to be a while though before any track is laid, the earthworks have to be built, and allowed to settle, drainage made good and improved, level crossings put in at three locations , cabling channelled in along the cess, only then will the actual track be assembled and panels start to be laid, If the green light is given, then i would expect Junction Rd will be the first crossing in, as the section to Salehurst, track bed has not been touched, so should be straight forward, once cabling and drainage work is complete at the same time the new earth works can be done on the section to Northbridge street, the other crossings put in, and the track extended to join up at North bridge street, to complete the line, Then the ballast trains will come in off NR, ballasted dropped overnight to minimise disruption on the A21 .
     
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  6. Fireline

    Fireline Well-Known Member

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    Generally, in these cases, costs are only awarded to one side when the other side have acted in a very unreasonable manner, or their case has no merit at all. I think two things have happened here. One: The Lawyers for the objectors have applied for costs to try to persuade the Inspector that the RVR's application is that unreasonable (or at the very least to get him to say that, while not very unreasonable, it is not in the public interest, and therefore refuse it.) Two: QC's aren't cheap. I wonder if there is an element of them only being able to object in such a well-represented manner IF they win their costs back. (Obviously I don't know their finances, but I do know from years of experience how costly legal representation can be).
     
  7. Biermeister

    Biermeister Member

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    Earthworks must also include significant drainage tunnels and culverts plus accommodation crossings and approaches, which I nevertheless presume have all been costed.
    What about Salehurst Halt too? Even though this might be (or end up becoming) an optional extra, I would imagine that, were it to eventuate, it would be a more substantial structure than a timber platform edge with earthen platform backfill as was the original. I would think that GWSR costings for Hayles Abbey Halt might give a reliable estimate.

    I wonder if perhaps we (I?) might be getting a bit ahead of ourselves (just myself?) here...

    Nevertheless it does look rather more promising now than it did a while ago: perhaps a 70% chance of success?
     
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  8. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    Probably the last day today - the programme entry for tomorrow is blank.

    Then I assume no news for many months, maybe up to a year, whilst the Inspector writes his report and whilst the SoS for Transport considers it before announcing his decision.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  9. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Yes the Inquiry should end today whith the Closing statement by RVR and a couple of other things. Unfortunately I am not able to listen in today. The closing statements should be avalable online in due course.
    I suspect that the report will be quite lengthy.
    I understand that March 2022 is being suggested as the date for the final decision.
     
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  10. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    The final decision or inspector's recommendation to the SoS, please?

    Patrick
     
  11. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Have the objectors made a good enough case? My reading of it is that much of what they have objected to possibly now is groundless, if the RVR has agreement with Highways England, and the Environment agency . Government policy is to promote connecting communities, and promoting leisure, you could say, the RVR case meets both objectives, Was it a mistake to base so much on a single item, the crossing of the A21, especially if agreement in principle looks like being reached for a level crossing,
    As regards MP'S getting involved, My local MP, has no remit from the residents of Rye and Hasting to involve her self in matters 10 miles down the road, when, IMHO, there are far more pressing matters she should have be dealing with, in her own ward, but then, we , most of us are not wealthy farm owning families, an objector claimed the RVR had friends in high places, no doubt, the same could be said of rich families having influential friends also,
    but now its a case of wait and see, for everyone, i just wish the process could be speeded up, the long wait helps no one, The farmers those who farm the bits of land in question, will be left in limbo, Do they sow next spring or wait for the ministers decision, and possibly loose part of a crop? and the RVR will need to start making plans, and holding discussions with the landowners, to see if they can agree terms,
     
  12. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    I understood that this was the final decision.
    There are a few more documents on the website this afternoon. There is a note from the inspector which clarifies that the Inquiry is adjourned until 2nd September to "allow objectors to the draft Order time to prepare to deal with new evidence submittedby RVR on flood plain storage compensation."
    He has defined in the same document other actions to be taken during the adjournment as well as listing the site visits he will undertake later in September.
     
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  13. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    I wondered why the current Hastings and Rye MP and her predecessor had got involved at all. I think that they must have been approached by one of the objectors. The Bexhill and Battle MP in whose constituency the RVR is, has come out in support but did say that he would help objectors with their submissions.
    I don't think any of the land in question is used for anything other than grazing. If you look at the document INQ/139 which defines the Higher Level Stewardship agreement for Moat Farm the land is defined as "species rich grassland'. The land at Parsonage Farm [as far as I know] has only been used for livestock since Planning consent for the railway was granted.
     
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  14. Miff

    Miff Part of the furniture Friend

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    In any case land wouldn’t immediately transfer to RVR on the date the TWA Order was made, if successful, since there’d be little point in them taking it until they’re ready to start works. When they’re ready they’d have to serve notices on the landowners, and then take possession on the noticed date. There’s a process for settling the amount of compensation but this doesn’t delay taking possession of the land.

    There are time limits for all these things but I don’t remember them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  15. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Before any work starts they will need access to conduct various surveys - for example a wildlife survey to meet the ecological conditions.
     
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  16. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    May I thank you, on behalf, I am sure, of many members of this forum, for keeping us up to date with the progress of the enquiry and providing a summary of the arguments on both sides throughout these last few weeks. It has been a very drawn-out affair (as such enquiries often are) and at times, no doubt became very technical, but your summary of the salient points is most appreciated.

    Especially as I am an armchair K&ESR member and live less than 10 miles from Robertsbridge, I am naturally very interested in the proceedings, but don't have the time on my hands to follow them. I just hope that the RVR will be allowed to proceed with the link-up to Bodiam, but that it will be possible to come to a decent arrangement with the landowners without leaving a legacy of ill-will.
     
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  17. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Hear hear! Many thanks from me too, Harold.
    I've tried reading most of the documents posted on the Gately Hamer site, but when you're faced with a document which shows something like page 1/63, it's extremely daunting to say the least.
    So your summaries have been most welcome, rather like the cricket highlights, to those of us who were unable to follow the RVR's test match on a ball-by-ball basis!
     
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  18. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    Robertsbridge Junction was open last Saturday so that the turntable could be viewed. I believe Saturday was chosen to coincide with Hastings Diesels Limited Thumper trip. I had a guided tour interrupted by the rain which fortunately came when we were next to the canopy by the new toilet block. The turntable deck is on a wagon at the platform with the rest of the bits nearer the planned location which our guide pointed out. Very interesting - I am sure it would have been better attended if the weather had been kinder.
     
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  19. Mark Thompson

    Mark Thompson Well-Known Member

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    Was it publicised at all? I'd have loved to have gone along. Weather was dreadful on Saturday, though- got soaked about half a dozen times just in the morning, alone!
    The Rother Valley was flooded at Stonegate yesterday, the road well underwater. What was it like down at Robertsbridge?
     
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  20. H Cloutt

    H Cloutt Member

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    There was a flyer in with Pheonix [the Supporters Association Magazine] - in hindsight I should have posted something on here. The Station site is open every Sunday from 10:00 until 16:00 - I'm not sure whether the platform is open or not at the moment. If it is I'm sure one of the volunteers would point out where the turntable is going. There is a number to ring on the website.
    I don't live in Robertsbridge but my son does - I understand that the Cricket field was under a bit of water. The rumour is that Southern Water let some water out of the Darwel Reservoir at Mountfield - but this is just a rumour.
     
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