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GWSR General Discussion and Operations

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by michaelh, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I'd like to think that most managements are more competent than those at the WSR and PR. For example the FfR managed a 40 mile extension, NYMR managed to secure running through to Whitby etc etc.

    But this I think goes back to my point about right opportunity at the wrong time - a lot for me would depend upon the financial hit that covid has taken - so for example to go back to the FfR you can see that they have focussed really hard to working out how to manage the line with restricted traffic and that has been where attention has been. I don't know what the hit has been for the GWSR and whether there needs to be a really strong focus on covid recovery.

    That said - at the heart of the FfR (and other lines like the SVR) covid recovery has also been a big infrastructure project to move the line forward, so that it isn't just give us your money so we will survive but something that looks forward to a brighter post-covid future.
     
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  2. James F

    James F New Member

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    I visited the line on Saturday and travelled from Cheltenham Racecourse to Broadway. A great trip! It took an hour - had great scenery - and to be honest that was enough. Broadway is a brilliant destination to grab lunch (as me and my friends did) and potter around. I'd imagine many heritage railways are envious of the GWSR for having such a top tier final destination as this.

    Also we got the bus from Cheltenham Spa Station and it was just £4 for a day rover! There were buses every ten minutes to the racecourse too. Brilliant! :)

    I think the proposal I saw discussed last year is perfect. (Article here)

    [​IMG]

    I don't know if this has been discussed in depth here (I haven't read every page of this thread) but I think it ticks all the boxes. After an hour and £25 quid from Cheltenham to Broadway, I think extending to Honeybourne would be overkill.
     
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  3. ianh

    ianh Member

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    James - what you have failed to note is that ignoring who builds the link you highlighted in Red - when you connect to National Rail at the new Chelternam North junction you have over 2km of busy main line before you get to the Chelternam Spa station - two platforms and zero infrastructure to run round and hold a local train in platform...

    Any extension North would be a dedicate route leading to a dedicated platform at Honeybourne with little requirment to meet National rail standards apart from working to and from the main line.
     
  4. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    And then there's the cost of getting a signalled junction on the busy mainline between Birmingham and the South West.

    Nice idea, but one for the too difficult pile I think.
     
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  5. James F

    James F New Member

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    Good points! (from flying scotsman123 as well) However the idea was suggested by GWSR founder and first chairman Tim Bazeley according to the article, and there was a meeting with Network Rail at the Racecourse to discuss it - so I thought it was at least feasible. Maybe somebody who volunteers at the railway can shed some light on whether it's even still considered.
     
  6. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

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    Here's a question though - if a main benefit of extending to honeybourne is a mainline connection, what is that going to add to the GWSR? Maybe if the owners of 35006 want to take it mainline it makes moving it on and off the railway easier, but locos like 70013 at Loughborough managed well enough without that. Things like being able to take in a railtour or a loco whose owners don't like it going on a lorry is nice, but is that really going to be a big enough plus to connecting up to the national network when the railway has managed rather well without that connection so far...
     
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Through working would be one benefit of a connection at Honeybourne, but don't forget passenger interchange as a separate benefit. Whether both together would justify the investment remains dubious.
     
  8. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Rail to Honeybourne is half the time it takes by car from Oxford (currently about 90 minutes by car), likewise it puts it within reach of London. Plus the connections for race traffic make it a potential destination for railtours. ie Dec meeting. There is also the potential for revenue from the line being used for testing - as happens at the Bluebell and SVR. Currently Long Marston to Moreton in Marsh is used fairly extensively so Honeybourne would connect into that (potentially cheaper than testing on NR for companies and easier to arrange). Finally there is the opportunity to work with related groups, for example the Cotswold Line Promotion Group is smallish, but has a lot of political connections and networks and do a lot of lobbying with politicians, NR, local authorities and are always looking to improve facilities along the line especially Honeybourne (as I recall they were the key movers in getting the station reopened and getting a decent service). They are also strong supporters of the GWSR, so the extension would be seen in a much more holistic way (unlike say Blaenau Ffestiniog which has really never been developed since the line reopened forty odd years ago).

    IMO there isn't a single big reason for Honeybourne in the way in which you could say a destination like Stratford would be, but I think it is the sum of its parts. In the end it might be that there are fewer railtours but maybe more users or vice versa. That I think is a good thing because the extension isn't putting all its eggs in one basket of 'get here and we will have lots of people coming direct from London'.
     
  9. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    Although I'm only an armchair member of the 35006 group and therefore not privy to all the decisions made concerning the loco, I think that the prospect of seeing P&O on the big railway is very remote. Of course, never say never, but not once since buying shares in 35006 and receiving the regular newsletters have I heard any mention of main line operation for the simple reason that there isn't any market for a 6th main line MN. 35018 and 35028 should in due course be joined by 35009, 35022 and 35027 on NR metals. That is most likely to be that, with the possible exception of 35010, which is a loco for the very long term. (I believe I'm right in saying that the group owning this loco intends to run its other loco and current restoration project, 45293, on the main line.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  10. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    If the GWSR did connect to Honeybourne what is the situation regarding the Long Marston line ? Would it become part of the GWSR, remain part of NR, or what ?
    I understand the Long Marston depot has recently changed hands and is now a rail development and experimental base, is there any potential benefit for the GWSR in this ?
     
  11. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I get the sense for the GWSR that the commercially attractive mainline connection would be at Cheltenham (starting point in a major town, midway between Bristol and Birmingham and in easy reach of either, Broadway as a honeypot out-and-back destination for visitors starting in Cheltenham).

    Meanwhile, the technically feasible extension is Honeybourne (relatively few impediments in the way, space).

    The end result is probably neither, because Cheltenham is too difficult to implement, and Honeybourne generates the wrong operational model.

    Tom
     
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  12. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Perfectly summarised Tom, I can't imagine there need be any further discussion on the subject!... :)
     
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  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'm sure there will be plenty more though :)

    Tom
     
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  14. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I can't remember exactly, but I do know that when the line was redoubled the platform space was left for the GWSR along with room for a run round loop, I think that the siding off the Long Marston branch was slewed over the create the space. It seems to me that that when the redoubling was done it was done with the GWSR running through to Honeybourne in mind. I don't know what would happen about who would be in charge of the bit of line shared from the station to the junction.

    What I will say is this - when the redoubling was done (and also with the more recent bridge replacement at Honeybourne) NR have done everything they can to facilitate the GWSR accessing Honeybourne. Considering all the difficulties that other lines have accessing mainline connections and also the physical difficulties associated with the Cheltenham end of the line, Honeybourne looks relatively trouble free (other than the bridges).

    VivaRail did a lot of testing of the 230s out of Long Marston so I'd assume that if they could access the GWSR without having to go onto NR they would do it in a jiffy. Other things get tested but the traffic out of LM isn't huge on the line as far as I can tell.

    Wasn't there a mocked up photo of a train at Broadway posted a few weeks ago :) Clearly pointing the direction to future travel in more ways than one. :)

    To add as @Breva pointed out - the sidings and land at the Worcester end of the station look very interesting in terms of a potential space. My memory might be wrong but I think they replaced some sidings at Moreton in Marsh so they might still be needed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2021
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  15. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    The sidings I meant are not on the Cotswold line but on the Honeybourne line, just south of the Mickleton Road overbridge.
    10 tracks wide, one freight train long. A huge tract of land that the GWSR would own/use. That must be attractive to someone?
     
  16. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    A housing developer possibly? Now that isn’t something I’d normally suggest but just a thought could the sale of some of that land make an extension viable or the possibility it could make it attractive for the local authorities who have new build targets to meet.
     
  17. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    I can't recommend housing right next to a railway line. That leads to complaints and land encroachment, both already occurring on the GWSR.
    I was thinking more along the lines of rail use, for storage, testing, access to the GWSR, connection to Long Marston etc.
     
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  18. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    I realise what you were thinking, just coming from a different angle really. I don’t recommend it either, but as they look to meet targets the pressure leads to consider less than suitable sites for housing - hopefully such a thought won’t come to them.

    The complaints from houses built after the railway always makes me chuckle & annoyed at the same time - The GCR had the same at Loughborough. It’s quite simple, if you don’t like it then don’t move there, but for some reason the moaners seem to regardless.
     
  19. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    The GWSR has sold 4 plots AFAIK over the years, mostly in the early years to raise funds. The last was the Broadway goods shed. The other 3 were at Winchcombe. One we have actually bought back (!) and the other (unexpectedly, I heard) resulted in two houses being built on a tiny plot at the entrance to the station. The occupiers now park their cars on double yellow lines and constantly restrict access to the station. So the sale of land has not been brilliant over time.
     
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  20. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Must admit I never understood the logic of the last example, always seemed a silly decision even at the time.
     

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