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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    Well that is the plan and it is a key aim of the Trust. The advice we were given was that it was unwise to wade in with a big appeal and bid for lottery funds upfront. Much better to complete a successful small project first then once you have the track record, build up to a bigger project. the smaller project was the museum refurbishment and that has now been completed successfully to the satisfaction of the lottery committee. We are now in the process of having the heritage coaches properly surveyed and assessed. This work is in hand and should be completed soon. Once we have that report then we decide how best to move forward with the project.
    Ian Coleby
     
  2. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Good news but what a hell of a long time to get to this stage.
     
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  3. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    It oughtn't to be weird for a line to to want to go back to its roots - they are after all supposed to be heritage railways, and much of the charm of the steam era stemmed from its regional variety, but the sad fact is that if most non-GWR lines tried to apply that they would probably not have the rolling stock resources to cope. For instance, much as I would like the NYMR to be more authentic, only a handful of its present fleet (B1, Q6, J27, Std 4T , Black 5s , 2-6-4T (and, if you narrow your eyes) Std 4 (3) 2-6-0 are appropriate to the line. The rest are there because they are needed to pull trains. The coaching stock situation is a little rosier but overall Barry scrapyard and cheap rtr Mk1s have delivered the mediocre uniformity that makes the occasional line that tries harder become shining beacons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
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  4. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    A 'tenner'? They should pay their staff more. :D
    (Ok, I know where the door is)
     
  5. Brunswick Green 2

    Brunswick Green 2 Member

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    Q5?
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I think the key point is ability to haul trains, and moreover, the 4F and 7F are regionally appropriate having worked the nearby S&D. Hardly the Southern in Yorkshire. As I say, I couldn't imagine on the NYMR there being people in positions of influence who would decide to evict the 'non-authentic' locos because they are not authentic.

    If authenticity is a key deciding factor then you shouldn't be trying to run locos that would never have run on the route in pre-preservation even if they are from the appropriate company ie Castles on a red route.

    Authenticity is a concept that is randomly and selectively applied to provide a fig leaf of justification for various random prejudices and biases and then ignored when it suits.

    "We demand only GWR authenticity no LMS here. We want an authentic GWR branchline, 4Fs never worked to Minehead. We want inauthentic Castles and Halls that never worked to Minehead, a Western, a 47, a pair of 33s".

    If the authenticity argument is going to be applied then at least try to deploy some consistency otherwise the argument is just BS.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2021
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  7. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to the recent WSR appeal for track renewal, the one when the railway had an extended shutdown because, er, the track hadn't been maintained properly and large amounts of it needed to be relaid?
     
  8. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    The only times I have ever heard someone refer to "selling the sizzle, not the steak(or sausage)" is when people are complaining about this strategy as being somewhat dishonest. It may have been in vogue many years ago, but these days, thinking people tend to prefer (tactful) straight talking and honesty. I know that my bullpoop detector is pretty efficient, and anyone trying to beguile or bamboozle me loses my interest very quickly.
    I know the Tornado lot did pretty well with their "a loco for the price of a pint" slogan which caught the attention. However, they immediately made it clear that it was a pint a week for ten years- so 500 pints, and ten thousand people opting for this method(methodists would be proud).
    Possibly the various appeals put out by the WSR might be more successful with the world at large if they did try a bit of honesty and straight talking. The current strategy of waffle and grandiose self-delusion doesn't seem to be working
     
  9. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I always enjoy Ian Coleby's contributions on here. They are relatively frank and honest, if somewhat naïve.

    Be careful, Ian, as it was during your Chairmanship of the WSR PLC you signed the new lease agreement with the SDRT at Washford for a considerable number of years...

    We know that JJP, subsequently, didn't like this at all.

    Cheers,
    Julian
     
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  10. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

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    Thank-you for posting these links, which retain some historical interest. Regarding the 2018 draft plan, it is noteworthy that the then PLC leadership took an open and inclusive approach by inviting stakeholders to comment on the draft. That old regime and its plan were of course to be swept aside by the revolution at the end of 2018.
     
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  11. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen the wording of the agreement and I am (thankfully) not a corporate lawyer however both sides would have viewed the agreement as a fit document. Furthermore, it would have been drafted and signed by gentlemen. In other words, it may have been flawed somewhere in the deep detail but the intent was understood by everyone. Replace one gentleman with another who sees the whole enterprise as "my railway" (as voiced several times in a stakeholders meeting), and the whole landscape changes. We have not only lost a group who were a net contributor with a fine array of wagons, but arguably the most useful loco and an operationally convenient bolt hole in the event that a loco has to be taken off the running line at short notice. Furthermore, the reputational damage across the preservation movement is immense. Who in their right mind would ever consider a future agreement on similar lines ?

    That moment was the wake-up call for the other organisations to combine and build a defence. A few of us saw that was not happening so we tried to rectify the situation via the democratic process. Sufficient people were persuaded that all was well, so we lost the vote and we abided by it. The systemic removal of some of the 10 is another wakeup call and thankfully, some of the current workforce have taken note. I am sure that the deep details of the disciplinary process will see the light of day at some point, and there are items that will raise a few eyebrows.
     
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  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    One thing we can be clear on is that If Ian Coleby had still been the chairman, none of this would have happened, in fact, i would go as far as to say, the railway might have turned a corner, and the much needed changes not kicked into the long grass, Ian i believe had the railway at heart, The present chairman, i am not so sure about, either he is a weak chairman, and allowing other who have a vendetta against first the S&D Trust, and secondly Certain members of the WSRA, to sway his judgement, or he is in full agreement with those who are using this to settle old greviences, in the case of the S&D that they should have never have came to what they see as an GWR line. And in the case of those who seek change, it was seen as a threat to certain power bases, some who have previous with some of those members and there might have been personal animosity also. and the chair is using it to solidify his own grip on power.
     
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  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    ....and here endeth the umpteenth lesson on the WSR. Approaching 40,000 posts with many wise comments and much frustration from people who it is inconceivable have views other than those that are in the best interests of the line.

    But it appears that there are underlying and significant difficulties, both financial and with the infrastructure, that even the best management in the land would probably struggle with. Any solution is bound to be painful. What I just don't get is why there is no consensus on the best way forward. Neither do I get any sense of clarity over whatever the game plan is.

    Sadly many of those associated with the railway take as an indicator of progress that the odd train or two is running up and down the line again. Just as sad is that in the previous post @martin1656 summarises the stark reality or why progress remains slow.
     
  14. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Most of the posts on here now are reminiscent of a dog chewing on an old bone. The WSR Plc in its present form seems to be in a death spiral that will play out to its conclusion next winter. I would far rather the WSRA would be currently amassing the finance to buy a true controlling interest (without the need for WSSRT support) at that time. It's the only realistic way forward that I can see, but the WSRA will need some reliable and sympathetic members within its ranks and should be discretely sounding them out now because they will need to provide a substantial capital injection and provide a new and more inclusive Plc Board. Whatever happens, I think that the current Plc Board's days are numbered whether they like it or not unless their own pockets are deep enough to make a rival bid. The WSRA, though, have a head start with the shares that they already have and the fact that they already have charitable status giving them a significant advantage for fundraising.
     
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  15. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    We still don't know for sure why the PLC evicted the SDRT. There was the ostensible reason given at the outset, about needing the site for their own use, but that was unconvincing and they seem now to have abandoned that idea. There have been mutterings about a supposed desire for GWR purity, and the eviction of the 4F would be consistent with that, but has the management ever actually declared such a policy? (Or indeed told us anything convincing?)
     
  16. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    Again, another one to knock on the head. The 4F. My personal recollection is that after a season or two running, it was found that the 4F had one or more cracked wheel sets. This appeared to have been a pre-existing problem, not something that happened at Minehead. Various high 5 figure sums were quoted for its repair. As the WSR had already spent a considerable sum on the loco, the agreed solution was an early termination of the lease. I may have got the details wrong and if so I am sure someone will correct me but its departure was 100% not to do with some kind of desire to evict non-GWR engines. Indeed, its temporary replacement was the S101...
    Ian Coleby
     
  17. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    I recall reading that the ORR had advised they needed to relocate the Dunster depot to a more central location. Any sensible alternative would have been Williton. If anyone believes that then I have a bridge for sale. Previously, it had been attributed to safety concerns that turned out to be pure fiction.

    Cast your mind back to the 6+1 freehold bid and their interest in the same site. Could it be a case of history repeating itself ? Please feel free to cry "conspiracy theory" if you can also provide a more plausible explanation.
     
  18. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    It may well be that the ORR passed some comments on (say) safety and working practices at DR, but it would be hard to imagine why they would concern themselves with its actual location. Like many such things, there is still no clarity (will there ever be?) as to whether or not the Plc actually had any formal business plan in place and agreed by its own Board before they took the decision to evict the S&DRT.
     
  19. FrankC

    FrankC Member

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    The Washford site is required for the use of the West Somerset Railway. Details are not going to be announced until negotiations with the S&D Trust are finalised. These negotiations are ongoing.

    So far as the 4F is concerned, my recollection of events is the same as Ian Coleby's: it would have been a very useful engine, but the wheel problem was entirely unforeseen by anyone. Heritage steam locomotives are like that...

    Concerning @Snifter's posting if only we had time to run all the conspiracies that have been attributed to people on the railway!

    Frank Courtney
     
  20. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    The problem though, is that should the PLC go under, the shares are worthless, The only hope has to be that the WSRA contact every known shareholder, other than the WSSRT of course, and ask that they donate their shares to it, in order to be able to not only call an egm of the company, to call a vote of no confidence, but to block any attempt by the WSSRT To support the current board, which, they will if the present trusteeships remain unchanged, and to have an overwhelming number of shares to win such an motion, because your having to fight both the company and the steam trust leadership, With the motion to call a vote of no confidence won, the board can be thrown out, hopefully at this stage, the members of the WSSRT will also have their own EGM, and the pro PLC elements removed, then talks can begin towards a new structure, but it has to be done before the plc crashes the railway, after that, there is no way forward, because once the administrators move in, they will sell the whole lot, lock, stock and barrel, the County Council as lease holder, will have to decide, does it sit back see what can be saved, or does it through local government, approach the transport minister and get it funded so network rail take the line back into public ownership,
     
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