West Somerset Railway General Discussion

You are quite correct. When the line reopens fully, we will not be getting the same numbers of passengers travelling, but I see no reason why the percentage distribution should change. The point I was trying to make is that passengers travelling the BL - WN section virtually all continue their journeys to MD, so cutting back the trains running in the BL - WN section would not make sense.

 

I think that makes the point I was making (even if others weren't always seeing it ...) If you have three trains busy in the morning BL - MN; and busy in the afternoon MN - BL, the question is what do you do with them in between? I suspect the traditional answer has been just send them back MN - BL, even if lightly loaded, which is a lot of empty seat-miles. Is there something more creative you could do, for example MN - Williton and return, to service the Minehead market. Even possibly at a discount fare - after all, if they are heading back very lightly loaded, any tickets sold are better than none. But the key is if there is very little traffic Williton - BL direction in the morning; and BL - Williton in the afternoon (i.e. against the predominant traffic flow), then don't run big empty trains.

In other words, a train diagram that went BL - MN - Williton - MN - BL might make more sense than just BL - MN - BL a couple of times.

Tom

 

Yes, that has been done previously and did see passengers for WT. At WN they could in the future connect with the DMU onwards to BL. What the planners have to be aware of is what someone turning up at BL at 1400 hoping for a round trip to MD is expecting. Most likely, from views on here, they would have a DMU to WN for a steam train onwards. How many of those people would still travel, or would they just turn around and go elsewhere? If passenger numbers and income are falling, are the fares too low at present?

 

Lots of discussion here around how the WSR might operate trains going forward.

However, the elephant in the room. Raising £1M just to keep running into 2022. A massive figure, what are the prospects of actually achieving that amount?

 

The question is how many such people are there, and can you afford to run a train for them?

My gut feeling is that you probably need somewhere in the region of 100 people on a train at full fare to make running the train worthwhile. (That would give a train income of about £2500, and forty miles of a steam loco alone would use a considerable chunk of that, before you get to other costs). So if you regularly have 100 people at BL at 1400 wanting a full round trip, by all means run a train. But if you only have fifty? Or ten, on a wet day? (By contrast, fifty people at Minehead given a half-line trip is probably worthwhile if the alternative is the train standing empty, or running near empty back to BL. But it isn't viable to run a near empty balancing service MN - BL just to pick up fifty people for a 2pm BL - MN - BL round trip, and then run back to Minehead near empty as well ...)

The key to me is cost reduction without significant service reduction for known demand; that can only come from really understanding traffic flows; and intelligent diagramming. The WSR does at least have the advantage of being able to start both locos and carriages from either end of the line to meet demand and reduce near ECS running - not something that all lines can do.

I don't by the way, believe a DMU service is the answer, either for some or all of the journey.

Tom

 

I do not think that they have the proverbial snowballs! looking at some of the videos posted here it is painfully obvious that some of our HR are in sore need of some much needed TLC if not adherence to basic safety, Many volunteers are getting to the point where physically looking after a railway is beyond their capabilities and unfortunately it is showing. WSR should cut some sort of a deal with NR as a maintenance training division or a limited service emanating from Taunton which could contribute to upkeep.

 

I think some of these discussions are missing what the WSR has to offer. It is not just a park and ride to the beach. Minehead beach isn't that great anyway with the sea, when the tide is out, hardly visible. My mrs groans if ever I suggest going to Minehead for that reason, it isn't a 'proper' sea she says, just mud. Anybody just wanting to go to the beach can just drive straight there.

What the WSR does have to offer, is all the nice stations along the route with different character and attractions at each. That is why I prefer going if there is a gala and then there is enough frequency of trains that you can travel a bit, get off, then get the next train a bit further etc. I suspect many railways, passengers just travel from one end to the other and never even see the intermediate stations/places, other than a quick glance out of the window, so they don't add much to the experience.
I particularly like Blue Anchor station, that is a real gem in its location. To cut costs they could mix up diesels/dmu with the steam operations to increase the frequency and just mark it on the timetable which train is which.

What the railway has is great. It just needs to market itself better to get more visitors to come.

 

your first paragraph probably is indicative of the attraction of Swanage Railway to non enthusiasts. On another tack I notice that a 400 space car park has opened at Taunton Station. Any weekend possibilities there??

 

Well there's always the possibility of another FGW Taunton-BL service.

 

Assess the market from both ends of the line. Run trains to make efficient use of locos and rolling stock to get bums on seats without too many empty seat miles. And BTW, does anyone's grandmother need advice on how to suck an egg? It should all be pretty obvious.

Even with the numerous changes of management personnel and distractions such as an alleged cuckoo and an alleged objection to colour-light signals, have the successive WSR PLC Boards really been so unaware of the basic economic facts, and could more enlightened management yet turn the business round? Or is the WSR inherently not viable even with perfect management?

We have heard that one bid for substantial grant aid succeeded but a second one failed, apparently because the wrong people put it together. That does look like a serious blunder.

It is unclear whether trains could have been run in the summer of 2020 and, if they had run, whether they would have helped or hindered the finances, but anyway the financial hole looks a lot deeper than a few months' losses.

How likely is the required million pounds to be found over the next year? And in future years?

 

Old DMUs have one USP, which is a view forward along the track as you go along. You won't get that on the main line, nor on a steam-hauled service.

 

Or too high? Is it losing out to other attractions that are seen to offer better value for money?

The problem with higher price points is increased customer expectations and a greater willingness to complain if it doesn't meet that.

I'd assume that the WSR has done extensive research and worked out its pricing and offerings based on that. I find it hard to imagine that they haven't done research on the attractiveness of short trips, diesel services.

 

A USP that allows you to sell about a dozen seats before being seriously devalued.

 

I’d agree that the WSR prices are a bit on the high side. A family of four would pay £100. Meanwhile the fairly nearby LBR charge £18 for a family of up to five.

OK the LBR is shorter, but offer unlimited rides for that price. The children can get off the train, run around and let off steam between rides.

We are going on a family holiday in the area in the summer, and I know what sounds a more attractive option to me. As the LBR grows, it is going to become bigger and bigger competition to the WSR.

 

Maybe true, but I'm sure it all depends upon what the potential customers (a) want and (b are prepared to pay.

To compare the L&BR and WSR offerings, it might be argued for example that the scenic views from the L&BR across Exmoor to the Bristol Channel are 'better' than those anywhere on the WSR. But which would you - as a customer prefer - a trip in stages along the WSR for 20 miles, where the view in every mile is different, or doing the same mile and view on the L&BR 20 times?

 

Sorry to disagreeing part Ian - but the actual statistics (pre Covid) show 40% of passengers go through Bishops Lydeard booking office, 30% of passengers go through Minehead - around 5% from on board sales by TTIs. The on-line bookings may show a higher proportion starting at Bishops Lydeard but these are by no means a majority of passengers. Right about the proportion of BL customers going full distance - but probably higher than 95%.

There has always been a far higher mixture of destinations from Minehead with Watchet being a popular destination BUT the greatest revenue every day from Minehead has always been the full length. Clearly there are two fairly distinct categories of passengers and any "solutions" involving only using a part of the line will immediately jeopardise a significant body of the custom.

Others have commented on the downsides but I dread to think of the customer experience should the idea of swopping trains at WN be adopted when considering the number of days when the weather is "less than perfect" and there is no shelter

Booking Office experience has shown that people come for a "steam" experience and there has been a significant number of potential customers who will not travel behind Diesel - the loading of the DMU services from Minehead has always been low.

Other contributors have commented on falling passenger numbers over a period of years - it should be borne in mind that over the period in question there have been two major changes in the way passenger numbers are counted - both have resulted in a lower headline figure but are a far more realistic number of the actual passengers (those traveling on shareholder gold/silver passes were counted multiple times until a modern hand-held ticket machine was introduced; family tickets used to be valid for 2 adults and 4 children - these were counted as 6 passengers regardless of how many actually travelled - this was changed to being valid for 2 + 2 then counted as 4 for the statistics. This is not to say that numbers have not declined but simply to point out that "statistics" do need to be interpreted before making decisions based on them

 

A fair point - for now. However as the LBR grows and offers a more substantial run, it will surely attract more customers away from the WSR.