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South Tynedale Railway.

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by sycamore, Sep 17, 2020.

  1. Robkitchuk

    Robkitchuk Member

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    Sadly highly likely. Its a massive shame for a small town like Alston.
     
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  2. BiggerBob

    BiggerBob New Member

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    The South Tynedale Railway has the potential to be a significant regional attraction as and when the extension to Haltwhistle can be completed. It remains vulnerable whilst incomplete - as would have been the WHR had it be forced to abandon track laying at Ddualt under similar circumstances. As understand it most of the remaining route is unimpeded apart from a new bridge over the A69 Haltwhistle bypass. Connection to the main line at Haltwhistle is critical. The Newcastle and Carlisle Railway will provide ready access to both the East and West Coast mainlines whilst the A69 has handy links to the A1 and M6. As far as I am aware the major elements are in place but formal processes such the DfT approval that John Prescott gave to the WHR. Perhaps somebody closer to scene could confirm the details. Thanks in advance.
     
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  3. MartinBall

    MartinBall Guest

    1. It's not Ddualt but Dduallt (yes, it does make a difference as 'l' and 'll' denote different sounds in Welsh)
    2. It's not even Dduallt if you mean the WHR, but, presumably, Dinas
     
  4. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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    Leaving aside the usual debate of how valuable a mainline connection is, except in the enthusiast mindset, and a better roadlink at one end -- if the Railway is struggling financially plans to extend have to go to the back of the priorities list. Survival and retrenchment as priorities are well ahead of it.
     
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  5. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    In principal yes Llwyngwern quite right, at the moment. Especially with regards to the current situation needing to survive and retrench. Consolidating what they have at the moment. But on the flip side of the coin, you need to have dreams and aspirations for the future. be they a general extension of the current line or a mainline connection, covered accommodation/maintenance workshops for all stock, enough stock with some spare to operate a good service........ Taking my line the NYMR there were always dreams of extending to Whitby, which eventually happened, granted that extension has been something of a double edged sword within the Moors, but that's a debate for elsewhere............
     
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  6. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    When I visited the South Tynedale, I was far happier to drive to Alston than I was Haltwhistle; there’s not much to choose between them for access outside winter. I suggest the problem is not the length of the line (whether too long or too short), but being a niche attraction in a less visited part of the world.

    I wish them well in recovering and hope to be able to visit again before too long.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  7. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    The sad truth is that even the receipt of a deal of grant money does not seem to have produced financial stability. All too often the only solution which enthusiasts can come up with is "let's have another extension".
     
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  8. Pesmo

    Pesmo Member

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    I love this railway and have visited many times. As a visitor from afar, a lot of the Railways problems I put down to their communication strategy and the fact that in the eyes of the customer like myself they were becoming unreliable. Even the local Hotels that I stay at were starting to despair that they couldn't tell their guests as to if the trains were running or when their season might start. The website is rarely updated (just 5 news stories in 2020) and they are not great at selling what is one of the most scenic lines in the UK to its potential visitors. Twice in the last three years I have taken the not inconsiderable trip to Alston only to discover that the trains were not running that day despite the website saying otherwise. Hopefully the next iteration of the railway will address this inconsistent communication issue. Railways live and die by the currency of their websites these days but sadly the South Tynedale railway is another that has failed to fully grasp this. In terms of the recent investments from grants and other sources, a lot of it was definitely needed, in particular the Workshop, Canopy , the cafe and the extension to Slaggyford and one must praise the excellent work done by the staff and volunteers on this. I have to question though the decision invest in building a full sized signal box and large car park at Slaggyford which to my mind was unnecessary. What it needed was something much cheaper when you have two sets of points (for normal running) and some gates on the road crossing (its a very quiet road that crosses the line) and are only running three narrow gauge services a day with just one Loco. The Slaggyford car park looks like it would hold 70 cars but I don't think I have every seen more than five in it. If they improve their marketing and communications to their customers, consolidate what they have, and perhaps wind back their ambition until they regularly fill their existing services then they may succeed, but the truth is Alston will always be a tricky place to get to for the casual traveller.
     
  9. 60044

    60044 Member

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    Talk about stuck records..... Like most railways, what the S. Tynedale really needs is a destination at each end and unfortunately Slaggyford does not really provide that, so the line really needs to expand or contract to a point that provides a viable "other end". I can't see a better destination that it has already reached so I fear that a further extension may have to be considered, and maybe only Haltwistle can provide that, although I'm not of the view that reaching the main line connection is needed for viability. Extending further may bring about further challenges, though, including whether the locos they currently have are suitable for longer runs and if they have sufficient stock to operate the two train service that will be needed.

    I fear that the likeliest outcome will be that the railway stays as it is, as a volunteer-only operation with limited operating days.
     
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  10. BiggerBob

    BiggerBob New Member

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    Thank you and Thank you - More Haste Less Accuracy was working well this morning.
     
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  11. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    The "stuck record" is enthusiasts failing to realise that such lines are not a means of transport but an entertainment, largely for non-enthusiasts. If not located adjoining a centre of population or in an area not particularly established as a holiday destination, then life for such lines is bound to be difficult, however worthy they are.
     
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  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Agreed. But that is not necessarily correlated to the length of line - there has to be enough of an attraction to justify travelling to the back of beyond, and the length of stay will be one of those factors.

    Meanwhile, having driven to Alston from Newcastle, the drive is a similar distance to (and little longer than) the drive to Alnwick Castle, which is hardly located in a cosmopolitan location. Both are closer than was the Bluebell to where I used to live in Orpington. We can overstate how remote Alston is.
     
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  13. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    Must admit to having mentioned paulthehitch's bogey word "extension." Though not as a cure for South Tynedale's current issues/problems. Rather as I said one of a series of "dreams/aspirations" for the future, as many lines have..............
     
  14. oliversbest

    oliversbest Member

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    An extension to Haltwhistle would provide immediate jobs in the construction and revive Haltwhistle with its easy access from the Newcastle and Carlisle Line. Perhaps an updated version of the MSC is required to reboot projects like the STR. I am personally hoping to go across that magnificent viaduct by rail.
     
  15. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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  16. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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    To make things clear I have nothing against line extensions, building new locomotives, and all of the other things that make up reasons why I’ve been involved with heritage railways for forty years. I hope before retiring permanently to the mess room in the sky to ride a bit further along the Dulas Valley on the Corris or into Bala via the BLR. If volunteers and financial supporters didn’t have that in their make-up the story since the Talyllyn started things going nearly seven decades ago would be completely different and most of what we enjoy in our various ways would not exist. I’m fortunate enough to be secure and able to support my choice of projects both narrow and standard gauge.

    However reality has a habit of popping up and belting us over the head with a sack of tomatoes. We are in very uncertain times economically and the paid staff of the STR (who I suspect were hardly getting rich in their employment) who have been laid off should be kept clearly in mind in all discussions as they seek other work and income. No-one HAS to travel on a steam train. All such travel is a discretionary way of spending money and I believe all railway managements will/certainly should be looking at how to be in business in the not too distant future rather than adopting the full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes approach.

    Every line is different and we do not know the circumstances that prevail on each, so there is no one size fits all correct approach that applies, or that any NP poster can state with absolute infallible judgement . But if times are hard and likely to stay that way speculate to accumulate somewhat lacks wisdom.
     
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  17. BiggerBob

    BiggerBob New Member

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    The council owns the track bed and the viaducts at Lambley and Haltwhistle are listed. Haltwhistle is the equivalent of Portmadoc. The extensive re-engineering of the A69 which now bypasses Haltwhistle - a notorious bottle neck has transformed the community. The A69 connects directly to the M6 and A1M whilst the Newcastle and Carlisle Railway is almost billiard table flat. There is plenty of space for an interchange at Haltwhistle railway station on land unlikely to have alternative redevelopment use. The major missing piece of the jigsaw is the need for a new bridge to cross the A69 south of the town and for a park and ride facility to be built there to tap into that major traffic flow. We all look to the Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland as an exemplar of what can be done but we need to remember that the line's revival began in 1951. By comparison the South Tynedale is an acne ridden youth. Other examples of quite remarkable revivals exist - I have a fond spot for the Brecon Mountain Railway. Nobody can pretend that this will be easy - but most preserved railways has been built of the "How do you eat an Elephant theory" - the answer is "A small piece at a time". The current pandemic has shown us how many people rely on the hospitality industry for jobs - it is quite feasible that the South Tynedale could fulfil a similar economic multiplier role as has been demonstrated in North Wales.
    [​IMG] South Tynedale Railway by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
    I have to admit to a professional bias, in my career I always found it easier not necessarily to be a ground breaker but a fast follower - in short some of my best ideas were not my own but the ones that I borrowed from others.
     
  18. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    From memory BiggerBob, whilst the yard at the Carlisle end of Haltwhistle station has been sold off [I believe]. Enough land and the former Alston platform, with space for a run-round loop have/has been retained, against the day if/when the STR do manage to re-instate the line into the town. Again from memory the yard would be an ideal area for the STR to have as a site for a series stock and maintenance sheds. That though would transfer the operating base from Alston to Haltwhistle
     
  19. BiggerBob

    BiggerBob New Member

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    That is my understanding also.
    [​IMG]Haltwhistle Station by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
    The current depot and maintenance look adequate, although the Festiniog does set an example of remote secure storage away from Boston Lodge. Haltwhistle will require a fully PRM compatible bridge/lift at some stage - whilst retaining the listed footbridge and signal box
    [​IMG]Haltwhistle Station by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
    [​IMG]Haltwhistle Station by Mwmbwls, on Flickr
     
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  20. 2392

    2392 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed it would need the PRM compatibility facilities anyway whether or not the STR eventually get there. As the other side of the platform to the Alston platform, is used for the Carlisle bound trains.........
     

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