If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,323
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Westcountry
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Frankly, I shall be content if we have any trains running again on the WSR. A gala is icing on the cake.
     
    Triumph 2500S and Will Foster like this.
  2. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    991
    Location:
    Waiting it out.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And if they are exceeded by the income - which apparently has been the case (see post 30430) - then contentment is ensured.
     
    echap likes this.
  3. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Galas profitability:

    If railway A pays a hire fee to loco to railway/society B that's not revenue lost to the heritage railway movement. Railway B will in turn receive hire fees from railway C and so on. As @martin1656 has said some of these are swaps anyway which will distort profit/loss figures. The irrecoverable loss is transport cost. Railways have got cuter at extending stays for a couple of consequent weekends and photo days (thanks to @Sidmouth and others) to defray some of that cost.

    Patrick
     
    jnc and Matt37401 like this.
  4. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,483
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    All true, but being neutral within "the movement" is rather misleading if that is achieved by a profit of x at railway 1, and an equal loss at railway 2.
     
    Paulthehitch likes this.
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,437
    Likes Received:
    17,937
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I don't think any financial directors would be terribly impressed with that line of argument! :)
     
  6. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    15,324
    Likes Received:
    11,660
    Occupation:
    Nosy aren’t you?
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think you only have to look at our friends in the the diesel community to how much can be saved with a convoy picking up and stopping off at various railways during springtime, when there’s 3 or 4 of you to share costs all of sudden 4 or 5 visitors can be rather profitable.
     
    jnc likes this.
  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,483
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Nor should they be!
     
  8. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,802
    Likes Received:
    7,438
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    With no railway to run, maybe the WSR should put a few of its locos on low-loaders and send them on a 'Tour of Britain', accompanied by a phalanx of 'chuggers' to raise money? Just think of the photo-opportunities.......

    Hat, coat,......:)
     
    Triumph 2500S likes this.
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,099
    Likes Received:
    57,412
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It would be interesting to know if such diesel galas were rather profitable, even with that manner of delivery of motive power. My understanding is that followers of diesels tend to be rather more fickle in their tastes (the Sulzer crowd will avoid English Electrics, and vice versa) which must make marketing funny (and also presumably means that in any given year, no one gala stands out from any of the others that have basically the same line up). I gather a lot of the profit from diesel galas is in very enhanced beer sales - which obviously only works if you have an in-house outlet able to sell beer! I suspect a major benefit of having an early-season diesel gala is that it allows the steam shed a free week to catch up on all the niggly little maintenance tasks they keep having to put off to keep the steam fleet in action! ;)

    Still, what would I know? I have a long-standing appointment to be washing my hair on those weekends ...

    Tom
     
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  10. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,483
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm not aware that they're more or less profitable than the steam galas; the use of convoys is just a different way of handling the loco sharing. The dynamics are then a little different to a steam gala (put a 50 on in lieu of a 33 will get you a much more dramatic reaction than a WC in lieu of a U class!), but the event is not that different.
     
  11. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,323
    Likes Received:
    2,397
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Westcountry
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    and don't miss the quarter finals of the national watching paint dry championship of the year. Unlike the WSR, these are still on, despite the virus.
     
  12. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    All true. Some railways might instead have a model of a lean fleet or have fleet problems (think SVR boiler crisis) meaning they're less likely to hire out, and have a net outgoing over time. Some railways might have mega gala inclinations and look to hire in more. But those are matters of policy (or unexpected circumstance). Railways that have a balance should hire out and in in roughly equal measure over time?

    (I was looking for an angle to bring this back to WSR operations, but can't. Apologies mods)

    Patrick
     
  13. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2014
    Messages:
    11,246
    Likes Received:
    17,946
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Barrister
    Location:
    Stogumber
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    In my case a busy box at a Gala (steam or diesel) is just as interesting and I believe it is well known that on any Swanage Railway Gala afternoon there is a better than 50% chance of finding me working Swanage signal box.

    The diesel fraternity is indeed split into followers of particular locos, the 'red pen' brigade and the like but they do want to RIDE behind the locos not just photograph them, so they are a loyal and valuable revenue source if you can get the mix and some novelty right.

    It is a VERY different market from the general pub;ic or steam followers though. Much more 'male' and with a significant over lap with adherents of real ale.

    Robin
     
  14. 6026 King John

    6026 King John Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,489
    Likes Received:
    734
    Location:
    Hampton Court, Surrey
    I think they were in a bit of a "no win" situation with the gala timetables. If they used the hourly timetable people said it was boring, if they tried anything more ambitious they nearly always seemed to run late in my experience. I actually approved of the hourly timetable when it was introduced as it was easy to remember the train times and everything seemed to run to time. But you're right - it did become dull after a while.
    I'm not sure comparisons with the Severn Valley are entirely fair. They can be a lot more flexible with their timetables. The sections between stations are not so long for a start - the Williton to Blue Anchor section is the issue on the WSR and means that you can't really have less than 50 minutes between trains - and that's if everything goes well. Additionally the Severn Valley has more complex track layouts at the stations which can be used to their full advantage at galas. Bewdley has 3 platforms so you can have 2 trains cross with another sitting in the 3rd platform. At Hampton Loade and Arley you can shunt a short local train out the way into a siding. At Highley you have 2 loops where an ECS or freight train can be parked.
    I have regularly attended galas at both railways over the last 20 years and have always enjoyed both. Both lines have a lot to offer and have staged some great galas over the years. Each has their own unique atmosphere but I tend to agree that the WSR ones have gone a bit flat in recent years and I'm not really sure why.
     
    Gunz412, Paul42 and Bluenosejohn like this.
  15. Some folk miss the Full English Breakfasts, hot luncheons and afternoon cream teas that used to be served aboard the dining cars on each and every gala day. The 'sideshows' count!
     
  16. Another Yorkshireman

    Another Yorkshireman Member Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2014
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    688
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    A really interesting, useful insight into something I am sure a lot of us do not fully appreciate. Thank you.
     
    malcolm imps and jnc like this.
  17. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    7,226
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Thorn in my managers side
    Location:
    72
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Whats the problem with an hourly timetable?

    Given the long section between BL & WN the hourly timetable maximises the number of trains that you can run
     
  18. SebWelsh

    SebWelsh New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    987
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I'm not against the concept of a hourly timetable but the previous one being referred to had in my opinion excessive dwell time at crossing points which whilst made the trains almost always run to time, did not show off our railway at its highest intensity. I believe that paying passengers do not pay the £30+ day rover to spend 10 minutes dwelling at each crossing point on each trip. The long section in the previous hourly timetable was WN to BA which is approx 25-27 mins for a stopping train.

    I aimed for the Spring Gala that was planned for this year to do something different. My favourite was the Friday where we would have had lots of different goings on, some double crossing at WN to allow an extra express run (meaning not a 2hr wait if someone gets off the train before).
    A favourite thing I like to include is the local train at the BL end which I had doing more than 1 BL-WN trip as it has done in the past. This is shunted into the north yard at Williton each trip to allow trains to cross. This can be done by as you've said there effectively making BL to WN a long section for "main trains" which rather than crossing at CH cross at BL. CH is then used as somewhere that the local train can cross the main trains.

    Previously the local train started at MD ran to BL, did a couple of NF trips then did a WN trip and back. The problem with it in my view was that the return trip took up a "main train" path meaning a long gap of nothing happening MD-WN.

    Several pros to increasing number of local train trips to 3 per day but also several cons.
    Pros - allows us to have smaller visiting engines not just restricted to NF section. Allows for increased mileage for passenger. More variety in workings for crews and visitors. Higher intensity in service between WN and BL. Allows some main services to run fast through SR and CH which is then followed by a local 25 mins later (passengers from MD for SR or CH can change at WN!). Because the main trains cross at BL not CH their journey time is reduced, meaning that most main trains can run through to Norton meaning the engine can be turned to face the right way and return to the same set meaning less dwell time for the loco (sometimes we can pay a 4 figure sum to steam an engine for the day - no point it being sat there doing nothing in my view). Another pro to having the service as 1hr 10 minutely is there are some paths available for a push pull train or DMU to work between MD and BA (this isnt to say that we will get one anytime soon - just that it is possible).

    Cons - Means the gap between main trains is 1hr 10 mins not 1hr (means the WN to BA section is no longer the tight bit though!).

    As you may be able to tell timetable writing is a balancing act between timekeeping and operational interest and unfortunately because of Covid I haven't been able to find out if the timetable proposed for the SSG this year would have worked well. I think it can be found online somewhere as it was published well before the gala was cancelled.

    EDIT : should now be attached. Please don't take this as the timetable that will be used in future, it needs some tweaking first.

    I'm always open to feedback and questions/sensible suggestions :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
  19. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,511
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western Atlantic
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes, steam locomotive people would never be like that; you wouldn't find, say, people who were huge fans of GWR engines, and others who despised them... :Playful:

    Noel
     
    ross, green five, Forestpines and 4 others like this.
  20. Gunz412

    Gunz412 New Member Loco Owner

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2013
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    113
    You have hit the nail on the head.
    It is the lengthy dwell times that are a bit of a downer. I think there used to be a 50 min TT which just felt more intense, but I do accept the operational challenges this creates,

    I also like to see trains to run a bit later into the evening but when this has occurred the loadings have been disappointingly low and probably not worth the effort.
    Yes, this debate has been done to death, but it certainly remains a valid one with many constructive opinions
     
    Triumph 2500S and SebWelsh like this.

Share This Page