If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Locomotive Front End Designs

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by ragl, Feb 19, 2016.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,106
    Likes Received:
    57,440
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Yes, but the point of evolution is that the vast majority of differences convey no advantage, or a positive disadvantage, and therefore are not selectively propagated - the differences that convey an actual advantage are rare, but they are the only ones seen in retrospect (for example, in the fossil record).

    Tom
     
    andrewshimmin, 30854 and Allegheny like this.
  2. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Think it can be demonstrated that a singular mutational difference that occurs in generation one must be sufficiently advantageous and/or sufficiently innocuous to carry forward into subsequent generations...
     
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Which is why Terriers survive in double figures whilst Leader is no more than a memory! (Does the NRM archive count as a fossil record for our purposes?) :)

    Of the evolutionary record, I'd just note that the way 'new' fossilised species regularly turn up, we simply have to acknowledge just how incomplete our knowledge is.
    ... which goes some considerable way to explaining why I'm a bit mystified about the rationale behind the Churchward 'County' project .... ;)

    Bring back the trilobites!
     
    andrewshimmin and class8mikado like this.
  4. Hermod

    Hermod Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2017
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    283
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Klitmoeller,Denmark
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The GWR locomotive can be made as half a County and half a City of Truro that went 100 mph on a sunny day.
    Compound of course.
    Distance between outside high pressure and indside low will not be much bigger than the Truro distance and cirka half the swaying County ditto.
    Will only look od directly in front and can cash two times as many film jobs.
     
    30854 likes this.
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Half of something, half of something else, and of course all something it never was. I was currently unaware of the huge gap in the film market for GWR 4-4-0s, let alone 2...
     
    Copper-capped, 30854 and Jamessquared like this.
  6. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The whole shebang seems predicated on what's the best fit for a particular niche slot. A role which might be filled here (say) by a mammal adapted to best exploit circumstances could as easily be filled on a remote island by a bird, reptile or even a crab species.

    Another factor is the stability which goes with being an isolated community, where competition from invasive species is minimal. On Mauritius, the flightless dodo thrived until Europeans turned up ..... on the Isle of Man, much the same applies to the greater and lesser Beyer Peacock 2-4-0t!
     
    Spinner, Forestpines, ross and 2 others like this.
  7. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    4,665
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    One might also note the phenomenom known as Island dwarfing...
     
    30854 likes this.
  8. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Bob only knows what gauge was originally earmarked for the line on the Azores then! :D
     
  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,106
    Likes Received:
    57,440
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ah, that would explain New Zealand ...

    Tom
     
    Forestpines and MellishR like this.
  10. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    3,316
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stanthorpe, QLD, Australia
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Colloquially known as "small chufferitis".
     
    maddog, Jimc and Bill Drewett like this.
  11. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Earlier post 153. I have been asking around. There is an article on the Selkirk tests in the U.S. Magazine "Central Headlight" Vol XIII, no. 4 fourth quarter 1983. There is a patent : US no 2226052. I could not access it through the US Patent Office
    website, Google Patent search supplied the detailed patent. Imho bad tests, changing two items at the same time, result longer chimney and chimney to orifice diameter ratios representing expelled product to steam, earlier chimneys too small.
    They preferred round orifices with cross-bars due to the incomparable test results of other orifices.
    Kind regards
    Jos
     
    Allegheny likes this.
  12. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    1,107
    Location:
    Oxford
    Wasn't "Trilobite" an early broad gauge single? Cue the next GWS new-build project... ;-)
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,106
    Likes Received:
    57,440
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Trilobite would be a good name for a GWR loco: a successful initial design that then continued without change for the next 270 million years until wiped out by rapid, mass extinction to leave just a few old fossils to show what once was ...

    Tom
     
  14. sir gilbert claughton

    sir gilbert claughton Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    511
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    east sussex
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer

    there is no "Tribolite" in the list of" british steam loco names " so I doubt if there was one
     
  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Well there jolly well ought to be .... "Ammonite" too .... in fact, we've an entire newbuild theme to drive Starkey to despair ..... we could go from single vanished species all the way up to global extinction events.

    Aren't I a little ray of sunshine? :)
     
    Spinner likes this.
  16. Copper-capped

    Copper-capped Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2017
    Messages:
    2,563
    Likes Received:
    3,316
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Stanthorpe, QLD, Australia
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It could be worse: unsuccessful initial design, then rebuilt every decade or so until kind of successful for another decade, then wiped out by rapid mass extinction. Let's call it...."Southernobite". :p
     
    marshall5 and Argus like this.
  17. JJG Koopmans

    JJG Koopmans Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    382
    Likes Received:
    474
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    For the few that are interested, I have prepared a revised text on the calculation of multiple front-ends:
    https://www.researchgate.net/public...front-ends_with_more_than_one_exhaust_orifice
    It contains the inclusion of the Buckingham similarity explanation and has better diffuser test data.
    Since my 80th birthday is nearing, this is my last contribution to the subject.
    You are invited to falsify the approach, so far I have only received opinions on my earlier texts, not a shred of evidence for any improvements.
    Kind regards
    Jos
     
    ragl likes this.
  18. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    3,610
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Occupation:
    Print Estimator/ Repository of Useless Informatio.
    Location:
    Bingley W.Yorks.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Thank-you Jos.
    Will print off and stick in the back of your book.
    Many Happy Returns...
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  19. nickt

    nickt Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    206
    Gender:
    Male
    Great stuff, Jos, and best wishes for your 80th. Nick
     
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    Jos seems have been a classic "voice crying in the wilderness". Some new technology is being incorporated in some restored and new-build locos, but few of them are getting improved draughting (or, come to that, any of the other Chapelon/Porta/Wardale improvements). Maybe one day?
     
    jnc likes this.

Share This Page