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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 60044

    60044 Member

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    "Like" seems to me to be the wrong response to such drastic action by a yet another supporter. I'm desperately saddened by it, I can't like it because it isn't going to help the WSR out of its ever-deepening mess.
     
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  2. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree that seems like the most likely motive. But given this was all 4 months ago, it seems remarkably counter-productive even for that motive.
    Edit - unless further revelations are imminent I suppose.
     
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  3. Andy Williams

    Andy Williams Member

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    It would be rather amusing if the current shenanigans came to the attention of Private Eye, and the matter received a somewhat wider audience.

    Andy
     
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  4. Rumours that 'The Hislop Report' will be front page news in the next edition of The Turntable are untrue.
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think "beware what you ask for" may be appropriate - I've personal experience of how reporting can mangle a story and make it worse.
     
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  6. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    Sounds like a threat. ;)
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Kindly note, I have no dog in this fight. I'm merely one of many wondering what the hell is happening (again) at the WSR. From an outsider's perspective, this is increasingly like watching trench warfare where, so ingrained have mindsets become that none of the combatants seems able to so much as stop to draw breath, never mind realise the impression they're creating among the rest of us and the public at large .... and it's emphatically not a good one.

    If posts on this thread are a fair reflection of what's going on in Somerset (and Clitheroe), perhaps the first question needs to establish Bailey's precise terms of reference. It seems to me that taking any WSR related assumptions we may harbour as accurate is, at best, precarious.

    Incredulity is beginning to be insufficient to describe my feelings regarding the perpetual internecine strife detracting from the reputation of this fine railway, of which I have such fond memories. Perhaps foolishly, I thought the EGM, which finally removed the previous regime, a few years back, had sorted the structural mess. Boy, was that ever wide of the mark. To both sides in this increasingly uncivil war, I'd remind you that last time around, the endless public bickering went so far as to allow the general (never mind the railway) press free reign to publish articles which began eroding public perceptions of our wider movement.

    Given the evidently intractable nature of the situation, my suspicion remains that there's something far bigger and more serious lurking in the long grass, which those 'in the know' won't, or can't divulge to so much as the wider membership. Any other reason underlying the perennial bobawful mess at Minehead would surely have to involve several psychiatric assessments. If that sounds flippant, believe me, it's not intended to be so. The ramifications ..... and not just for the WSR ..... are simply too serious.
     
  8. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    I'm certain he wasn't the origin of it - it was an early minor litigant who died in the course of action against the Eye. It's somewhere in 'Golden Balls' by Richard Ingrams, on my bookshelf.

    Diversion #1 - There was a very funny and hugely inappropriate comment at the time of Cap'n Bob's death from a Maxwell employee. Taste dictates I won't repeat it here (feel free to PM me).
    Diversion #2 - Posters here have used various forms of euphemism for a comment allegedly made by one senior person in the WSR to another. A now accepted legal euphemism for the phrase is Arkell vs Pressdram (Pressdram is Private Eye‘s publisher). EDIT - @35B beat me to it!
    Diversion #3 - 'Golden Balls' records an article written by the late Auberon Waugh, resident very close to the WSR in Combe Florey, when threatened with a libel 'gagging writ' from James Goldsmith. He responded in print saying he didn't know Goldsmith, had never written about him, but now felt compelled by the writ to do so so long as it (a) wasn't untrue and (b) wouldn't influence a jury. He then at length impugned his appearance, speculated on the size of his manhood and unmasked his (hitherto unprinted) mistress and second family. The judge was unhappy with it, but couldn't do anything. For the avoidance of doubt I'm not suggesting this as a course of action in the current case.

    With that tenuous link to the WSR, I will get my coat.

    Patrick
     
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  9. Strail

    Strail New Member

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    Never Happens on Nat Pres :).

    All joking apart......all this is very sad for railway preservation.
    Wounds take along time to heal especially deep ones and the scars are always there as a reminder.
    Feel so sorry for the guys and girls (both paid and volunteer) who have spent (some many years of their lives) time, effort, blood, sweat and tears and probably along with many memorable social dos with friends from the railway.
    They must be feeling so demoralised and my heart goes out to them.
    I hope the wounds get treated shortly and that recovery is quick with not too many visible scars
     
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  10. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I am making a serious point, as of course you are, but there must be questions as to why some of those involved in the WSR behave the way they do.

    I had an interesting conversation with a psychiatrist about 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland and the general view was that the place or at least the politics were so awful that nobody with half a brain or any social skills would get involved.

    Was it @Big Al who said that there was something in the water?

    My suggestion might be that its tied with the structure which leaves the PLC board without proper accountability in turn generating no end of frustration, and possibly a PLC board trying to run a railway which never has enough money
     
  11. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    This seems appropriate at the moment... ooo.jpg
     
  12. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I think PE would know of West Somerset and the goings on there if the late Mr. Waugh still lived in the area.
     
  13. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    How could we forget Thornbury Castle! All that valuable publicity splashed through the railway press. Publicity, like money, can be seen as a tool to be made use of in order to achieve certain ends and outcomes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  14. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    It's the WSR.

    Noel
     
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  15. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    I always stay away from giving free legal advice in public. Not least because it pays poorly. Up thread, there is good advice about never saying anything on social media you would not want to be in court defending. I go a stage further. I would never write something I wouldn’t say to someone’s face.

    But equally, at least once a year I have legal clients asking about bringing defamation actions. In 25 years of legal work, I have never yet advised a client to take this course of action. It’s usually best to sigh and move on.

    If you can afford a defamation action, it will almost always be seen as Goliath v David. Never good.

    Even more so in heritage Railways. Passions run high, and sometimes folk forget the person inside the position. When I was WSRA Chairman we thought the dining train prices hadn’t caught up with where they should be and there was a hike. A passionate, committed (and valued) WSRA member wrote to me and felt able to ask if I was ‘on a mission to murder the Quantock Belle’. I sought him out. (Better than ‘sorting him out’!) We had an open discussion. He thought the right price was (then) £42 per head as against the £45 we had set. He accepted the the £3 difference in price did not really justify the language and (I believe) we parted friends. There is some pretty nasty stuff about Paul Whitehouse and myself on the 4160 website at the moment. I won’t be going to law over it.

    Best just to sigh, move on and show you are above the childishness in 999 cases out of 1,000.

    Whether the threatened action is the 1 in a 1,000, others will have a view.

    Robin
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  16. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I've come back to the apparent cesspit (a poster uniquely without friends or any other social media interaction referring to us) .

    Pausing for a minute I think fair play to those who seemingly of their own volition are on hands and knees weeding the track (quite brave when you consider what empties on the track) I'm not sure I could (k)neale that long .
     
  17. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    As an aside, there was an episode in West Somerset that provided Private Eye (more power to that organ !) with endless copy. A WSR signalman was a senior police officer at the time and he has a few good stories to tell. For anyone that missed it, the slogan was "Vote Liberal or we'll shoot your dog".
     
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  18. Martin Fuller

    Martin Fuller New Member

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    There are swings and roundabouts here. Take the recent case of 7828's restay for example, if an owned locomotive fails unexpectedly, then the railway is faced with the cost of not only repairing the locomotive, but at the same time hiring in cover. A double whammy of expenditure. If a hired in loco fails, it is the owning groups problem to fix it, and the railway simply hire's in another loco. No financial double whammy.

    The main upsides of owning engines are:
    1. Security, if incase there are not enough suitable locomotives available for hire
    2. You have total say in the locomotives maintenance and ensuring the engine is reliable.

    While it is not difficult to hire in 'something', it is good to be selective. Not too big (coal consumption/wear and tear on the infastructure), not too small, reliable/in a good state of repair, good relationship with the owning group etc.. Secondary considerations might include meeting customer expectations, an appropriate engine for the line. Popularity with crews, ease of servicing & etc.. Hiring in a GWR loco has major benegits, interchangability of parts/spares, maintenance staff familiarity, availability of drawings etc.. All will be aware of a very recent example of how badly things can go wrong when hiring in a locomotive that does not match the aforementioned requirements.

    The bottom line is that no locomotives are earning enough for their overhauls, the cost of which is ever increasing. No railway pays a sufficient day rate to keep the wheels turning. Privately owned hired in locos need to have other sources of income to cover the shortfall, either the owner puts money in, or the engine has a supporting membership making donations, undertaking fundraising, doing voluntary work etc.. The same bills come due in the end for WSR owned locos, and if you don't put money aside against the inevitability, the financial shock can be huge.
     
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  19. Mike S

    Mike S New Member

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    This is all becoming something like good old Brexit, 'facts' from all sides, when people are asked to clarify their 'facts' there is an odd silence and whichever side you are on you are a clown for believing in that side. Only things I've not seen or heard of yet is a bus with 'facts' emblazoned all over or milkshakes being thrown, so far anyway...........
     
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  20. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    Excellent post IMO. I'd add

    Supply and demand is a factor. Only a couple of years ago there was said on here to be a shortage of locos for hire.
    Having the appropriate large/small mix in your fleet is one thing, the availability to hire the type of loco you need in order to balance your fleet is another.
    I'm aware of a railway being more careful about the locos they bring in, as experience has shown they can need unplanned additional work (particularly with loading/transport/unloading)

    Patrick
     

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