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Recommissioning after Coronavirus

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by johnofwessex, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Fr the time being may, if not all of our heritage railways are going to have to think outside of the box and how they can make reduced passenger numbers work , To me offering addition add ons, such as hampers pre booked and on your table so the jouney becomes more than just a train ride , ok it will mean less turn up and go bookings, but lets say you have , as many do a functioning kitchen, you can still produce a meal , that can be packed up, along with a bottle of wine, or something, all pre booked, of course, and so when the day comes, a group can turn up with a pre printed confirmation, pre paid up front, with compartment numbers etc, be shown ,or told where their compartment is and everything is ready, the compartment cleaned, sanitised , away from the next trainload, and of course its a different market, people have been locked down, no chance to relax , it might even, see once things relax further people coming back to see the railway at a more leisurely pace .
     
  2. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I realise we had a brief thread drift on the WSR thread about the IOWSR not requiring face masks on the basis of if a compartment is occupied by a group from the same family then it classes an exemption from the current law under
    "a person in an allocated cabin, berth or other similar accommodation, when they are in that accommodation alone or only with members of their own household or support bubble"
    Whilst I can see the (what I believe tenuous) interpretation of that allowing the railway to take that stance, I feel it is not good practice. It was to me obviously written to cover such things as overnight sleeper berths and ferry cabins.
    Having looked at the IOWSR website one of the FAQ's states
    DO I NEED TO WEAR A FACE COVERING?
    • No. The vast majority of visitors will have their own compartment, used only by members of the same household.
    • If you are travelling alone we may need you to share a compartment with another solo traveller. If this happens we will ask you to wear a face covering.

    So what happens on the platforms and whilst you are waiting?. Is it proposed that passengers remain on train at both ends? If so to achieve this will they be T keyed in, a practice currently on some NG lines that I have always regarded as dangerous if an accident should occur. Although the ORR when I wrote to them claimed it was a lesser evil than a door coming open where there was limited clearance. I know from mainline tours telling passengers not to get off a pickups or ops stops often falls on deaf ears.
    The other issue, perhaps bigger, is the mixed messages this produces. We have seen what I regard as quite clear messages misunderstood in this crisis, a message that says face masks must be worn on all forms of public transport seems quite clear, and appears to be being adopted by all other HR lines and network TOC's, and yes I realise enforcement is a bigger issue.
    Like most rushed legislation it is lacking in some thought, hence this debate, and although obviously not an issue on the IOW the term "reasonable" covering eating and drinking is another major area of dispute for a mainline tour. Reasonableness of course normally only ever gets finally decided on by a man in a wig and that will not be happening any time soon.

    All academic to me as I really as I do not plan to be travelling on any form of public transport any time soon, but I know, especially from other forums, there are those out there that believe this whole issue is just some sort of fake news.
     
  3. desperado

    desperado Member

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    Many countries do not require require masks to be worn on station platforms, only actually on the trains themselves.
    Germany and Netherlands do not require masks on station platforms.
    France and Belgium require them.
    National Rail encourage them on stations;
    "While face coverings are only mandatory on board the train, we are encouraging all passengers to wear a face covering from when you enter a station all the way through your journey, including exiting the station at the other end. If you are then moving onto the bus, tram or tube, you should avoid taking off your face covering while interchanging, to avoid touching your face or mouth unnecessarily."
    Having spent a Saturday doing some needed track & locos in Germany, the ability to remove the mask while waiting in the open air on the platform was really welcome.
     
  4. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Let's be quite clear. Passengers on the IOWSR do not travel in locked compartments. It has been the practice for staff to assist passengers in and out of compartments, now it will be universal and travellers will be asked to stay in the vehicle until the door is opened for them. Traditional country rail travel in fact. Somehow I suspect things will be far more orderly than at some other attractions or at seaside resorts.

    This has been facilitated by the types of vehicle fortuitously inherited or deliberately augmented over five decades. Vehicles to be used elsewhere with compartments but with internal side corridors do not lend themselves to these arrangements.
     
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  5. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    Normal services do not have gatherings of people trying to photograph the loco as it runs round though.
     
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    So what happens at Wootton and Smallbrook Junction, they stay on the train or a free for all?
     
  7. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    As said previously, passengers are expected to stay on board until the door is opened for them. There are unlikely to be re-enactments of what happened at Bournemouth recently.

    It sounds a bit as if the green eyed monster may be about. Surely not.
     
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  8. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Regardless of what the instructions say, I am absolutely certain that some people will wish to get out at Smallbrook or Wooton, both for a leg stretch and to photograph the engine. It's what passengers do, even if planning to return immediately on the same service. If you aren't going to lock the doors, I can't see how you can prevent that happening.

    Tom
     
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  9. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Then asked promptly and politely person to person to return when felt to be necessary. In other words, not talked at by loudspeaker
     
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  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Who said anything about loudspeakers?

    I just think you are naive if you think people will stay in a compartment while the loco runs round. And if the intention is to stop members of the public touching the door handle, by time they have done so and then been politely asked to return to their compartment, it is too late ...

    Tom
     
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  11. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    I mentioned loudspeakers because there are a couple of places I know which are shockers for talking at their visitors through microphones rather than with them as human beings. They are going to find it especially difficult to raise their game which present circumstances will oblige them to do. Wiping down door and window fittings after every return trip is something which is going to have to happen whether passengers are required to wear face masks or not.
     
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  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    That is of course assuming they can actually get over to the island in the first place, no passenger hi speed from Portsmouth, only the Fishbourne car ferry is running on Wightlink, and hovercraft, from Southsea, which only has limited capacity I don't know if Red Funnel are operating.
     
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed, some railways do this, and will have to raise their game. However, the question remains open as to what the IoWSR will do to communicate to it's visitors. Speaking entirely personally, if we had a family outing of that kind, I or my wife would book, and one - not both - of us would look at the attraction's website. If booking now, we would have forgotten 80% of the content before the day, and would focus on the immediate practical arrangements for the day of the trip itself. That means 75% of our party would not have read the information so carefully presented, and there would be an 80-90% chance of no-one in the party being aware of the detailed arrangements before arrival. Even assuming we're an extreme case (and I suspect we are in the compliant direction), that leaves a significant proportion of the visitors needing clear on the day guidance.

    Lest @Paulthehitch feels I am challenging him or the IoWSR in particular, these are questions that apply to each and every railway running at this time. The only specific exception that I am aware of is the NYMR from Grosmont, and that because it will be top and tail to MP18, not a station.
     
  14. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Apparently the Red Funnel high speed service is back but not the Wightlink catamaran. What you say is absolutely so and I think Wightlink could show a little more vigour. The IOW is not a virus hotspot.
     
  15. Paulthehitch

    Paulthehitch Well-Known Member

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    Well we all need to take a bit of extra care even if some of those telling us what to do fail to do the same.
     
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  16. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    All any railway can do is put in place sensible arrangements including the ability to learn from experience. It isnt possible to predict how people will behave within the environment created by the infrastructure and the new covid related restrictions. The guidance from the ORR is very clear that the ability to learn is key and I am sure that is right.

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
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  17. misspentyouth62

    misspentyouth62 Well-Known Member

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    Forgive me if this may have been covered already but I am of the notion that travel on the rail network (or wider public transport) is still for 'essential' travel only. Has it been announced that this restriction is being lifted in line with dates that Heritage lines are starting to reopen?
     
  18. Wyreman

    Wyreman New Member

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    The WMR website still has a huge "Necessary journeys only" sign on the front page. Chiltern isn't so in-your-face about it but has the usual "Can you travel another way?" stuff. Until that changes, I can't see the SVR getting more than a handful visitors coming by rail.

    Edit: National Express coaches don't serve Kidderminster these days. They might be an option for some otherwise, since they've now reopened with what seems to be a much less restrictive policy on non-essential journeys than the railways.

    For me personally, I won't be travelling on the SVR any time soon. I'd need one, to be able to board and alight at Bewdley. And two, prices that weren't prohibitive for individual travellers. I don't really expect either this year.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2020
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  19. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    No.
    There might be slight alterations with the 1 metre+ social distancing, but travel will still be restricted.
     
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  20. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    The guidance no longer mentions mentions "essential travel", and in England it is permissable to travel for leisure.

    The "essential travel" was guidance whereas the wearing of face masks on public transport is the law. The restriction for heritage railways providing travel was really that no one was supposed to be leaving the house except for "essential travel" and that restriction is largely lifted in England. Trains could have been provided, but apart from a tiny number of people who might have used them to go to the shops or work, they would have been empty. It clearly would not have been right on social or economic grounds to run trains.

    Heritage railways are public transport in law and so the wearing of face masks is a legal requirement whilst on board the trains unless eating or drinking or within a compartment only occupied by your household or linked household group. From the point of view of risk though, the social distancing (allocated seats etc) and cleaning regimes being put in place will make the risk significantly lower than most forms of public transport I think.
     

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