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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I don't understand why the subscription would raise any doubts. It would be the WSR PLC that paid the subscription (probably for multiple copies) and not the individual using the PC.

    If you note, the person logged on to the computer appears to be called 'User' - pretty generic! I suspect the PC was setup with a user called 'user' so that multiple people could use it and that it was someone called Paul (who may or may not be the former GM) who installed Office 365, hence the meta data with his name.

    Keith
     
  2. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Seems to work for other railways

    Keith
     
  3. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    But why would a PLC of a railway, be party to something that may have an adverse effect of its supporting charity, and not keep them informed of it from day one? again its all down to having the wrong structure, and people who have ignored the issues in the past, being returned to positions of power , and still being unable/ unwilling to effect the needed changes. If the WSR folds, it will be the fault of the WSR, Coombes showed the way forward, the saga of the X6+1 should have been a precursor to changes in structures, and a unified approach from everyone to do with the railway. instead, nothing really changed, people who possibly did not have the right skill set continued to reach positions of power, others, who did possess some of the skill sets, were told thanks but we don't need you, Had some of those people been on the verious boards and had influence, the railway might have been in a far more healthy position.
     
  4. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's my point - generic user accounts leave the data on those machines very insecure, especially if it's personal data. I've operated in those circumstances, and find it very uncomfortable indeed to know that unless my use of the machine is spot on, anyone else could get access to any of the services I've used on my login.
     
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  5. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Hence the most recent appointment within the plc raises a few eyebrows.

    To add to Mr Sidmouth's point, would it not be strange if a close relative held a senior role. The interview process would have been interesting. I wonder if that role is paid ?
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    In which case, how do you explain the presence of a representative of the WSSRT on the plc board - surely by your reasoning, what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?

    The critical point you seem to be missing, in this and your previous answer, is understanding the plc business model. Yes, it is absolutely true that the legal responsibility of the plc is to their shareholders. But shareholder value depends on a successful business; and the business model is completely and utterly reliant on millions of pounds of volunteer time; and hundreds of thousands of pounds of altruistic donation. So ignoring the concerns of volunteers and donors is not a good way to demonstrate that the business is being managed in a long-term sustainable way in the interests of shareholders.

    Tom
     
  7. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    No. A pre-pack is where the post administration situation is worked out pre-administration and all the documentation, bar signatures is drawn up pre-administration. You need approvals from a number of key players to go down this route. The company is then put into administration, the paperwork signed and the phoenix rises.
     
  8. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    I'm just trying to puzzle what the PLC's end game is here, do they actually want the railway to fold? who would be the winner if it did,
    Does the Chair actually believe it can become WSR ,an part of JJP holdings company, by buying it from the receiver, ? Does the other board members go along, because they can't see any other way out,?
    At what point does a board member lose sight of whats important, if they can't grasp the enormity of the situation,
    Other people, could be waiting in the wings to buy whats left in a fire sale, and there might not be anything left to start a newly re opened railway,
    Part of me thinks that the chairman , for what ever reason is intent on an eventual TSR type operation, with very limited scope for supporters and mostly paid staff, except, Minehead isn't Paignton, and 22 mils is harder to maintain than 7,
     
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  9. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    And all the existing shareholdings are gone with no further influence and the new owner owns 100% of the shares and of course all of the assets having paid off the creditors.

    Edit: Also my guess would be (maybe a bit more difficult than I say) the LRO also stays in place. All you then need to do is buy the freehold directly from SCC, anybody would think somebody has already tried to do that part without the rest of the family finding out, oops.

    If you were really cynical you could think clearing out a few sitting tenants along the way was a good idea as well so you could realise some assets to pay for it all.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  10. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I have hinted along these lines a couple of times in this thread. However, the Dartmouth line is not just shorter but is engineered and maintained to a very high standard, no backlog of maintenance and ORR oversight. The length of the WSR is its Achilles heel, as has been mentioned a few times here.
     
  11. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Not necessarily no. It depends on the terms of the prepack.

    I have no idea if anyone is thinking along these lines I was merely correcting the point about what a prepack is.

    I really can't see this being engineered to give someone control of the assets, but you never know.
     
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  12. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck......

    I had a conversation with a central player right at the beginning and said "just watch, it will be the story of the gingerbread boy crossing the river on the back of a fox". I was told that I was completely wrong, there were people with deep pockets who would be willing to sell assets and pump in their own money etc. etc.

    Now roll the clock forward and think about every single event. The charities are now sitting on the nose of the fox.
     
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  13. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    But where is the money to come from, especially in these uncertain times?
     
  14. Lplus

    Lplus Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling that the view that anything is acceptable if it keeps steel on the trackbed is far more common than you might expect. The possibility that the WSR may become the personal fiefdom of one man (by whatever means) is felt to be a minor price to pay.
     
  15. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    Post 24242 appears to have even more relevance : (your recent posts appear to add ammunition )

    Regarding an earlier post from you. There are many of us ( perhaps now even a majority )
    who would welcome a restructure, involving the establishment of an 'overarching charity'
    or similar.

    However if we cannot save the Operating Company ( ie the Plc ) then all such hopes
    are as dust. Let's get through Covid. Innuendos and continuous sniping are
    counterproductive. It's bad enough that the two key players feel the need to go public
    re disagreements, let's not add fuel to the fire.

    Michael Rowe
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I’m sure there are many who feel that way. But my post was in answer to comments about the duties of directors and trustees, where I was and am concerned about the apparent ethical void at the heart of the posting, which I hope was just @rodders154 expressing himself poorly.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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  17. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Bad situations perpetuate where good people say nothing. We all want to save the patient but major surgery is required.
     
  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I suggest the problem is not that they have gone public, but that such disagreements have arisen in the first place.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  19. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Maybe but to repeat what I have said a number of times. How do you make a small fortune? You make a large fortune and then get interested in railway preservation.

    Few if any lines make a profit on railway operations alone. Most are heavily subsidised by their supporters organisation.

    The WSR was deep in the financial mire pre-covid, despite what the accounts might show and post covid it will be lucky to avoid going under.

    Even if it wasn't, someone is going to have to cover those losses and it not going to be the myriad of supporters associations so who's it going to be?

    The railway is owned SCC who may want to off load it, but would face serious criticism and censure if they off load it, only for the new owners to sell of chunks for redevelopment.

    Now the charities might get their acts together and actually start generating the kinds of money that other charities do for their railways but they still can't just hand this over to subsidise the railway so where is the Somerset magic money tree?


    So unless the fox wants has deep pockets, he may find himself not the fox, but the frog with the scorpion on his back, to mix our fables.
     
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  20. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    It is said to be easy to fool someone but it is very hard to get anyone to admit to being fooled. They are slow to change and this slowness or unwillingness can be taken advantage of. If we look at the WSR and its supporting organisations you would think that nearly being bitten once they would be more wary but this does not appear to be the case. Lightning does not strike the same place twice - years ago I met a Police motorcyclist and his Norton Interpol was hit on two separate occasions, so yes it very much does. Static objects fairly frequently and moving ones are not immune. The WSR might have believed that it had moved on from the X6 + 1 situation but without undertaking the necessary reforms it has remained a static target.

    How many of those who support the WSR either through the WSRA or other means are unwilling to admit to themselves that they may well have been fooled again?

    Just because you value something does not mean that someone else will. You may spend tens of thousands of pounds restoring a historic piece of rolling stock but this does not mean that others do not view the item in another way. A scandalous waste of money which would have been better used helping the unfortunate in society or even a suitable target for arson because, well, 'reasons'. Similarly with a whole heritage railway you might see it as following the Talyllyn model, a group working together to save something that they all value allowing it to continue because of the support that you give it because otherwise it would disappear because it is no longer financially viable. Not everyone will see it that way. Some will be generally supportive in that they might buy a ticket on an odd day out. Others just will not care, they have other interests, others might be hostile, remember the attempt to preserve part of the LMR? Just one form of hostility and resentment.Still others will view you as something else and will make efforts to undermine you. And the WSR appears to have been bitten twice by those whose interests are not those of the railway as the supporters know and love it.

    We do have the odd casualty in the preservation world, Dinting Railway Centre being one and nothing is too big to fail. Hostile activity in the business world is common and your "preservation business" may well be seen as an opportunity for what could be termed a little asset stripping.
     
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