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Locos that didn't even qualify as a 'might have been', but really deserved preservation

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Martin Perry, May 24, 2020.

  1. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If only those had had just one more pair of uncoupled wheels! :D
     
  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I’d like to propose the James Anderson Museum of Engineering debacles, devoted to engineering wrong turns.

    36001
    All Drummond 4-6-0s
     
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  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Only if Paget's 2-6-2 goes in too ..... deal?
     
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  4. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Of course if one really wanted to stir the proverbial it would be to list locomotives that have been preserved and didn't deserve to be...
     
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  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Of course.

    Holden's Decapod?

    Anything built by the GWR? ;)
     
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  6. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Either an NBR Drummond Abbotsford 4-4-0, or a Caley McIntosh Dunalastair... Both excellent engines for their time, and beautiful looking too.

    In fact another of mine would be NBR Wheatley 4-4-0 No. 224 "The Diver" - The Locomotive which infamously went into the Tay in 1879... This Locomotive was hauled out after 3 months, and returned to service. It was subsequently rebuilt by Holmes, and survived another 40 years after the Tay Bridge disaster, not being sold for scrap until 1919. Built in 1871, it and its sister No. 264 were the first inside cylindered, inside framed 4-4-0s in Britain.

    Can you tell I'm currently reading tom Middlemass's "The Scottish 4-4-0 - Its place in Railway History"?!

    If the boat were really to be pushed out, I'd have to say a Caley Conner 8'2" single of 1859-63 simply because they looked absolutely beautiful. This design was used on the Egyptian State Railways too.

    Richard.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
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  7. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Decapod ..... yes (ditto it's rebuild ... fugly thing!), but everything by the GW? Surely not Lord of the Isles or North Star .... and what about the VoR locos? Superbly chunky, jolly effective and disgustingly reliable. I'm gonna have to admit to having a soft spot for the 1366 class too, as they're proof positive not all pannier tanks are the same!
     
  8. clinker

    clinker Member

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    But hasn't EVERYTHING built by the GWR been scrapped and reconstructed as something else? Isn't there a group somewhere reconstructing 'The Great Bear' out of a 14xx on account of them having the same valve wheel for the injector?
     
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  9. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Aren't the VOR locos rebuilds? So they aren't really GWR locos. They can survive.
     
  10. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    In which case everything that runs or has run recently has been rebuilt ...
     
  11. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    No. 'Rebuilt' implies a fundamental change, e.g. a different type of boiler; applying superheat to a saturated loco; replacing slide valves with piston valves, and similar. Repair and simply replacing components on a like for like basis does not imply a rebuild.
     
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  12. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Two of them were new locomotives. The third seems to have been classified as a 'repair', but using all new parts. Like the 1361 saddle tanks they are perhaps best described as a new design inspired by a predecessor.
     
  13. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'll put my hand up for starting the latest round :oops:

    On an earlier thread, I gave my view of the ten most significant locos:
    • "Salamanca"
    • "Rocket"
    • "Planet"
    • E.B. Wilson "Jenny Lind" type
    • A Kirtley Midland locomotive
    • The LNWR DX goods
    • The GNR large boiler Atlantic
    • The Churchward standard designs
    • The Maunsell N class
    • Fletcher Jennings "Dolgoch"
    For reasons why I chose those, see the earlier thread. Of those ten, the five listed in bold above were not preserved, and therefore clearly meet the criteria of "deserve to have been preserved".

    However, we also clearly seem to be in solid "list your favourite loco" territory regardless of significance. So for me I'd have a couple.

    As a practical heritage line choice, I would take Kirtley LCDR R class No. 207 (later SE&CR No. 666, BR 31666). This had the distinction of being the last genuine LCDR locomotive still in service, withdrawn in December 1955 having run 1,824,683 miles. The LCDR was blessed to have had one awful and two superb locomotive superintendents, and its loco stock was far removed from the somewhat down-at-heel image of the railway as a whole, though still subject to the same financial constraints. Obviously it would be as running in the Kirtley period, i.e. 1890s LCDR livery.

    [​IMG]

    (Picture source: https://basilicafields.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/lcdr-locos-part-4-the-kirtley-r-class/)

    The second choice is also LCDR, but this would be my personal runabout (well, a man can dream!): one of the "Second Sondes" class LCDR 2-4-0Ts. These started out as dreadful 4-4-0T Cramptons built in the late 1850s; were rebuilt by Martley into smart little conventional 2-4-0T; then rebuilt a second time, less drastically with new boilers and cabs, by Kirtley, then reboilered again by Wainwright before being withdrawn shortly before World War I, all o them having run around a million miles in service. As finally running, they were very smart little things. I'd take one in final Wainwright condition.

    [​IMG]

    (Picture source: https://basilicafields.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/lcdr-locos-pt-1-second-sondes-martley-f-class/)

    Tom
     
  14. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I don't really agree with the semantics - possibly the view of the railway enthusiast has been swayed by what happened to Mr Bulleids finest? (or The Six Million Dollar Man ??!!)
    Something can be rebuilt to its original form, the word merely implies that it has been disassembled and then reassembled.
     
  15. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    No, I don't think so, it has a specific meaning in locomotive practice. If a part breaks and you replace it with an identical part, it has been repaired. Rebuilt specifically implies a change in some substantial form.

    A Bulleid pacific as modified by Jarvis has been rebuilt - it is substantially different to the original design. When "Tangmere" dropped a connecting rod on the line at Winchfield, it was subsequently repaired, and is substantially identical to how it was before that incident.

    Tom
     
  16. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Will have to agree to disagree :)
     
  17. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    If you mean compared with the originals, you could just about call 'em a redesign, but as t'is reckoned no part of the original D&M locos matches anything on the 1923 locos, I'd go with a novel design which just happens to bear strong similarities to what they replaced.

    Were the original W&L locos rebuilt ... or just reboilered (and Swindonised)? From all accounts, the GW built boilers were a big improvement on the BP originals, which took an age to raise steam. S'pose we ought to be thankful they had Walschaerts' valve gear, or they'd have likely come back with panniers, in place of side tanks. Whatever, the preservation era loco history of the line shows just how well suited to the line they've always been.

    As an aside, it's interesting (to me, at any rate!) that the earliest successful applications of Walschaerts' valve gear in these islands were on NG locos .... the T&D (1889), W&L (1902) and L&MVLR (1904), whilst on the SG, not much AFAIK seen beyond railmotors, pre WWI.
     
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  19. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    But, according to those experts of the railway press, all these are 'Restoration', a word that should never be allowed except in connection with 17th century comedies.
    Pat
     
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  20. LesterBrown

    LesterBrown Member

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    GWR Stars 1907 - just tucked away out of sight.
     
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